137. Leading Change: Influence over Authority with Lata Hamilton

[00:00:12] So, Lata, welcome to Girl, Take the Lead. We're so excited to have you with us and especially from Australia. We're having a whole different perspective on things. So really appreciate you joining us. Thanks so much for having me. I'm really excited.

[00:00:28] Yeah. So do you want to start by introducing yourself and then talking a little bit about what brought you to this podcast and, you know, what are your passions there?

[00:00:40] Yeah, absolutely. I think for me, if we're to go like right back to the beginning, I've adopted from India. You can probably hear my accent. I am based in Australia. So I live in sunny Sydney in Australia, although it's not so sunny today. It's very rainy.

[00:00:55] But I was adopted by an Australian family when I was two. So I came from an orphanage in India, was adopted into, you know, obviously a very, very lucky country, a really loving family and had the opportunity to be able to create whatever type of life I wanted for myself, which was just absolutely amazing

[00:01:15] and be really given that opportunity in those resources. So I am very passionate about helping women, helping anybody who wants to really live life in a different way, be, you know, grow as much as that they can reach their own potential to really help women step into their leadership

[00:01:35] and their life, help women to understand what their strengths are and what they bring to the table and the value that they bring to the table. And also just start to create a new type of leadership in the world.

[00:01:48] A leadership that is more flexible, a leadership that is more fluid, a leadership that you know, in many ways is more feminine in terms of being able to carve new and different paths, whether that's in career, whether that's in the way that we do things in workplaces

[00:02:04] and really tap into having a life of flexibility, freedom and fulfillment. And that's why I thought this is definitely the podcast for me.

[00:02:13] That's great. Thank you. And so you had been in the work world before you pivoted to what you're doing now. Won't you talk a little bit about that? That would be good.

[00:02:27] Absolutely. So I was raised in a, I guess, pretty traditional family. My dad was the breadwinner. My mum was a stay at home mum. And I just saw, you know, the model for being successful in career and life be like looking at my dad going,

[00:02:45] okay, cool. Like you know, you go and you work in one company for life. You like my dad had worked in one company, like the whole 25 years that I had been in the family.

[00:02:56] You just get promotion after promotion pay rise after pay rise and that's the one track path to success. That's the only way to go.

[00:03:05] And it was sort of in my early career I had followed in my father's footsteps and gone into the corporate space, not probably aware of that.

[00:03:16] I hadn't, I had actually studied media and communications at university, which was quite a creative degree that didn't necessarily go like have a direct career path into the corporate world.

[00:03:28] But because I was like, I would like to make a decent income and there wasn't as many roles or the industry was sort of starting to taper off in media.

[00:03:38] I was like, I'm going to go into the corporate space because that you know at an unconscious level, that's what I had been programmed to think was the only path forward.

[00:03:47] And I was like, I've been in the corporate space for a few years in and I realized I'm not a 50 year old white man. And I'm not like a baby boomer or a gen X who were my managers at the time.

[00:03:58] I was a millennial Gen Y and I was ambitious. I wanted to lead. I wanted to have impact. I wanted to increase my income.

[00:04:08] I wanted to be able to do as much as possible and really live my potential. And that was sort of where I started to make some new changes and some difference in my career path and my career choices.

[00:04:20] Right. And what are you doing now, when you made that for that?

[00:04:25] Yeah, so it took a few years to get here. But well, a year or so, you know, I was feeling really stuck early on in my career. I'd been working for a couple of years and sort of getting great results and getting great feedback and sort of starting to coach and train others.

[00:04:40] But my salary wasn't increasing a lot. And I didn't feel like I had the variety and growth. So I moved companies got like a $20,000 pay rise and then it was a colleague who actually said to me, Oh, have you thought about change management?

[00:04:53] Because I was thinking like what do I do next? And she had worked in project management before and so she could see my skills and experience in media and communications background, marketing and advertising background.

[00:05:05] And she was like, I think you'd be great in change management. And at that time I done neuro linguistic programming. So I was an accredited neuro linguistic programmer which is NLP for short much easier to say NLP and coaching.

[00:05:18] So like those skill sets kind of all came together and I didn't really know what change management was. And so I went and, you know, found out a little bit about change management and actually made the career change to change within a few months.

[00:05:30] And that just was the opening for something that I never really expected it to be like I didn't realize I was going to find an area and a profession that I was so passionate about and that had so much opportunity for me and for women generally.

[00:05:47] It's a highly paid female dominated and really fulfilling career because you're helping people at the time that they need it most in workplaces, which is when they're going through organizational change.

[00:05:57] And you know if your listeners don't know what organizational changes it's like organization change management I should say it's simply moving people from doing things in one way to doing things in a new way.

[00:06:11] And we do that through communications training and business readiness to realize the benefits of the change and it can be, you know, a new process and you system and your application and your platform, and your product and your service or a change to a product or

[00:06:24] service, new team structure, layoffs redundancies operating models, move to remote work move back to the office so I was able to take all those skill sets move it into change management and I just found this profession that I was really great at and a lot of a lot of women are

[00:06:40] really great at those skill sets, but then also be able to have such a positive impact on like truly on people's lives at the times when their entire world and you know work gives us so much work, you know gives us a sense of meaning a sense of purpose a sense of pride, as well as the income, obviously, you know when we're going to

[00:07:03] get paid for it. So when all of that's thrown up into the air as part of organizational change it's like, you know I'm able to help leaders and help teams and help, help stakeholders understand what that's going to mean for them, understand where they could potentially see themselves in a new

[00:07:21] future, build those skills that knowledge that shift in mindset along the way and build their confidence that they've got a place in the future ahead.

[00:07:29] I think that is just so great because I can remember going through layoffs or change management, you know changes that I had to make and not managing them very well, like falling into depression or really questioning who I was and how come I'm laid off I don't understand

[00:07:48] why do I keep making these and so everything that you're doing is just going to be so helpful I think. What do you think are some of the biggest issues that you know Gen Z years and millennials are facing in the workplace.

[00:08:06] I think that there is a know that you talk about this on your podcast but I think there is a big difference in the generations. Yes, like there's a big difference in the generations that are in leadership in most companies and the people who are sort of doing the work coming into the workforce but then also you know millennials

[00:08:26] are starting to get into that mid level. Mid level experts mid level managers now and there is this kind of clash in philosophy. There's a clash in ways of working there's a clash in expectations.

[00:08:42] I mean, it's not new news. I think that everybody's been sort of aware of it for a while but I think that what cove did was it showed that there was an alternative.

[00:08:52] And then because baby boomers are still taking up a lot of the board position C sweet positions they're not retiring.

[00:09:01] They are still in the leadership within organizations whereas like in the past, normally by this stage, you know of their age or of that generation they would have already started moving out of the workforce in higher numbers. But they're still there because they're like, I'm active.

[00:09:18] I'm here I'm relevant. I'm doing that idea. There's actually just been an ad for it. Just straightly, baby boomers coming like it's like the different generations and the baby boomers like I'm relevant.

[00:09:34] I think we should probably have a t shirt that says something like that. I don't know. I don't know most of the boomers I know are all cashing out it's like, I'm done.

[00:09:45] So it maybe will be a little while longer but I think they're going to have to move on. And like even my dad, for example, like he retired and now he consults and he you know that pays for like mum and dad's trips overseas.

[00:09:58] So they still have that kind of that hand in in things I think and and so you've kind of got them who are like, well, you know we just worked the 60 hour weeks we just worked the 80 hour weeks and then you've got millennials who are starting to have families who have always wanted that flexibility and that freedom

[00:10:16] you know like we're the generation that went on gap years and wanted to take time you know overseas travelers become such a big open thing and starting to have families and then covered really showed us a different way of living a different way of working.

[00:10:29] And so there's this philosophy and at the moment in Australia I'm not sure what it's like for for where you know in America and where your listeners are but like in Australia there's a big push back to the office.

[00:10:42] And you've got this generation of Gen X in the middle who are like, because I know a lot of Gen X they usually kind of in the heads of change, sort of positions whereas millennials are more in the sort of change practitioner.

[00:10:58] It's like they don't, they didn't necessarily love like burning out working so hard which is the model that the baby boomers left.

[00:11:08] But then they're seeing these like millennials coming up behind them and going like you're moving too fast for us like we need our time in the sun we need our time in leadership and you've got these millennials going like we're ready where like let us lead,

[00:11:22] let us transform the way that we show up in the workplace. So I think there's just this real shift in expectations and you know if I think that as we start to see some of those older generations move out of the workforce in higher numbers,

[00:11:37] the retirement age in Australia like where you can access your retirement funds and pensions and things like that just keeps increasing. I feel like I'm tired. I don't want to be working. Benefits to wait as long as you can, you know. Yeah.

[00:11:54] So what do you think are the big things in terms of how we have to change the way we work? Because I know you've got some thoughts on that. I mean, I've been talking about it for a couple of years.

[00:12:10] I'll probably get to ahead of my time like even pre COVID I was sort of starting to talk about digital transformation because I work in change management, a lot of the change that I've worked on has been technology change,

[00:12:21] digital transformation bringing or bringing in automation bringing in enterprise resource platforms and obviously we're now really starting to see a big, big growth in artificial intelligence AI.

[00:12:35] And so I'd been sort of talking even before COVID about like in Australia for example it was like five million jobs were going to be lost within 15 years to technology change and globally it was like 70 million jobs were going to be lost sort of thing like just just huge amounts.

[00:12:54] And so I'd already been talking about it but I was a little bit too ahead of my time, I think because nobody really cared. Nobody really took interest because my big focus and my big passion was the workforces aren't going to know how to handle that.

[00:13:09] Like these are such big shifts where so many people are impacted at once as these new technologies and ways of working come in.

[00:13:17] Like we have a very, in many cases a very passive workforce who they fall into roles or they wait to get given a pay rise they get wait to give an a promotion they get wait to get tapped on the shoulder to change a career, rather than being proactive right.

[00:13:32] Obviously what your. I was kind of like go with the flow, you know not it you know and then later in my career I got the idea like, Oh, I can create something here. Yes. I can choose.

[00:13:43] I can carve my own path like that for many people is outside of the realm of possibility. They don't think of themselves as being able to do that.

[00:13:54] And so, but then going to have to because they will get thrown into the deep end of change as you know we're already starting to see it automation E. R. P. is artificial intelligence.

[00:14:06] It's a certain extent virtual reality but I don't know if that's really going to have as much of the impact on major workforces it'll probably change the way that we do things.

[00:14:15] So like it's kind of almost empowering workforces to be able to get there to be able to.

[00:14:23] I like understand and know within themselves and own their own skills and experience or in transferable skills and experience around what they do now and how that could go into multiple pathways into the future so where I'm talking a lot now about the future of work is I really think there's going to be a big shift in job design.

[00:14:42] I think it's going to shift a little bit from at the moment you'll often be kind of hired in for a role, given a job description. These are your responsibilities. These are things that you do we know that in reality you'll probably flex and flow around the edges of that.

[00:14:57] But there is generally that idea that you will sort of be doing the role of the title that you have stepped into.

[00:15:07] But as we shift and change what kinds of jobs we need in workplaces in the world, many of which have not been invented yet they haven't even been created yet I think that there's going to be this real shift towards having more flexibility and fluidity in what you do, and it

[00:15:24] not being so much about your title. But being more about the value that you bring and a great example is me like yes I'm a change manager.

[00:15:36] You know I'm a consultant I go in and I will perform the role of a change manager however the way that I talk about myself is change leadership and confidence, because that that's the value that I bring to an organization.

[00:15:49] Like in so many cases what I'm giving projects what I'm giving teams what I'm giving leaders, or what I'm giving my own students for example is the confidence to launch to go live to change careers with you know to step up into leadership.

[00:16:05] So it's almost like transforming and moving away from job titles to being more flexible and fluid to go in and actually be delivering against a value outcome. And being like great it doesn't matter what skills I use. It doesn't matter what tasks I perform.

[00:16:24] What matters is that we get the result that we need and that I'm adding the value that's required and starting to position ourselves in a different way which is a big shift for a lot of people because a lot of people are very wedded to their title.

[00:16:36] They, it's such a mark of identity for them. Yeah, so starting to shift that and what I would also say is starting to also work a little bit more flexibly and fluidly like not working this 60 80 hour weeks, you know working more fluidly based on.

[00:16:53] You know, like, I need to add the value I need to be delivering the value how I do that and in how many hours I do that does not matter.

[00:17:03] And that's where we'll start to see the rise of you know independent consultants like me who I could go and work with several clients at a time, and I go and do strategy and planning in change management and transformation.

[00:17:14] And then I coach and build capability internally for them to lead and deliver the change themselves and I support them in that.

[00:17:21] So we'll start to see a lot more independent consulting and we'll also start to see a lot more fractional consulting which is, you know, you might be doing the role like the role or the title of even like a C suite like a CFO for example chief financial officer or maybe it's like a technology director or marketing

[00:17:41] marketing manager or whatever it is you might go in and do that, but you'll only do it for three months to get to the result to get to the outcome. And then that project or that organization might not need your skills anymore, you go back into the pool.

[00:17:57] And when they have that next piece of work that's needed because changes are happening so frequently, the world is changing so rapidly that trying to hire somebody for like one to two years when you don't know what is going to be needed in the business in one to two years.

[00:18:15] It's going to be locking in a lot of talent and locking in a lot of salaries. So we need to shift the way that our workforce thinks about themselves and we also need to shift the way that we design our roles and hire for them.

[00:18:28] Yeah, well I think what was coming up when you were talking was that there's bound to be a lot of fear around around change like that.

[00:18:41] You know where, you know it used to look a certain way and now it's very different and I'm trying to navigate my way through it.

[00:18:49] So I think how do you, how do we handle the fear that would come up. I guess it's sort of seeing that this is where I get a little bit of my marketing kind of going because when we talk about a personal brand.

[00:19:10] You know, which is something that you say you are.

[00:19:17] You know what your, you call them, what your values are or what the value is that you're bringing to the organization and I look at it like, well what's my, you know, greatest strength what do I really do in my job.

[00:19:36] And that's not to me, if we, if we sort of keep going in that direction of a personal brand statement about ourselves. That might help us deal a little bit with the fear. Absolutely. Do you have any thoughts on the fear part?

[00:19:55] Yeah, I want to tell you I had breakfast the other day with two girlfriends. One of them was like AI fearful like.

[00:20:05] And you know I found myself being very optimistic about it because in podcast land, AI is kind of a friend. You know, like I can use it in a lot of ways. So I'm happy about that but not everybody's happy about that.

[00:20:22] Yeah. Absolutely fear is a given I think when change comes in like it's normal to be fearful and it doesn't mean that you're a horrible person.

[00:20:34] It doesn't mean that you're that you aren't an open minded person like, you know, it's almost like a it's seen as a bit of a sin. Yeah, shame. Not be open. Yeah, it's not be open.

[00:20:51] You might not want to admit that maybe you are a little bit fearful but it is a really natural human instinct like we are designed to love for things to be stable and secure because it means that we know our place is safe.

[00:21:03] It means that we know our place in the world. It means that we can plan for the future. It means that we can guarantee our own survival and our own livelihood and especially when it comes to things that could be impacting roles and jobs like if you think about it.

[00:21:16] In your job, it is truly truly like it is your livelihood. That is what's putting food on the table that is what's putting a roof over your head.

[00:21:25] And in many cases again it's it is the pride, the pride that you have in the identity that's wrapped up in that.

[00:21:31] So fear is very common when it comes to organizational change and I like to talk about an idea which is this undercurrent of change acceptance because if we can kind of build a little bit more comfort about change, a little bit more comfort about the fact that

[00:21:47] what's going to happen is inevitable. A little bit of comfort around here's how I can empower myself around change and here's how I can shift my mind side around it.

[00:21:58] We can kind of create, we can kind of almost like if you've heard that phrase a rising tide lifts all boats. Yes, yes.

[00:22:06] If we can place that undercurrent, then it doesn't matter what the up and down, you know, peaks and troughs changes that come along the way. We're already working from a higher base.

[00:22:16] So I think generally it's just having sort of change leadership training capability and resources rolling out to everybody so that they can start to build the resilience and build the skills to lead change for themselves and in their own mind and their

[00:22:32] emotions and potentially even in their personal life. But then also really arm leaders with being able to lead their teams through that so that can really help to manage and mitigate the fear.

[00:22:42] And then another thing is having really great examples of how things can be done differently because at this point in time with AI, there's so much unknown we don't know what it's going to mean people are sort of dabbling some people are probably getting

[00:22:57] in trouble, you know, like making mistakes. That's that's how we learn. You know, no baby ever, you know, went from crawling to walking without stumbling a few times. Those mistakes are inevitable. Baby's bounce right.

[00:23:16] So it's kind of starting to think more about what does like talking more about that feedback, that feedback loop and in neuro linguistic programming or NLP for short like we often say there is no failure only feedback.

[00:23:30] So if we can see if we can grow as well like a growth mindset and create feedback loops where mistakes are not mistakes are not punished mistakes understood root causes identified, you know that they're understood so that there's a level of

[00:23:50] awareness and then there's a plan and a mitigation put in place as to how to do things differently how to do things better. The more people that we bring in to that process will mitigate the fear, because if you have a culture within your organization or you're able

[00:24:05] to create that sense of safety in growing and learning from mistakes, then it means that we can start sort of start to minimize fear and if you can show examples and role models of people who have done it successfully already.

[00:24:25] The more examples that we have of that, then the more that people will see well maybe that's a possibility for me to. And that's one of the reasons why I talk very openly like I made the move to independent consulting two and a half years ago.

[00:24:38] And I never planned to sort of share what I do as an independent consultant like that wasn't a thing, but I started to have women reaching out to me saying like I want to learn, you know, like how to become an independent consultant like you in change management

[00:24:51] and.

[00:24:52] And I was like okay well okay that's fine like I'm happy to have to share how I've done it and what I've learned along the way and kind of build and bundle that together but then I thought I was like no, like I have actually created this really flexible fluid way of living with a lot of freedom

[00:25:09] and also being able to really choose my own clients choose my own schedule choose my own rates step up in my leadership step up in the value that I bring an offer.

[00:25:20] So I went, yep, I'm going to be that role model for people I'm going to share more about the way that I set up my day the way that I set up my month quarter and year how I go about, you know, finding clients how I go about working with those clients,

[00:25:35] and if other women can see that that's a possibility to be an independent consultant or be a fractional consultant, especially if you are sort of that mid career level or more senior.

[00:25:46] It means that if you don't want to work the 60 to 80 hour week you don't have to yeah you have possibilities and pathways and when you know beyond shadow of a doubt who you are what you want the value that you bring and what you're worth when you know those four

[00:26:03] things and then you know, beyond shadow of a doubt it doesn't matter what comes your way it doesn't matter what happens, you will succeed in whatever comes your way and whatever the path you choose to take.

[00:26:13] Well I think that's what you call you know you've described as being confident. Confidence comes from when you do know those things.

[00:26:23] Wonderful, you know being centered and who you are no matter what happens in the day no matter what happens in the company you, you can be you. Absolutely.

[00:26:36] I just want to sound a little bit you come back to that center of this is what I do. And this is what I'm good at, and it's okay if it's not wanted here or needed here anymore.

[00:26:48] I think what you're, you're talking about to is just having this, the resilience and the flexibility that it's not something that you have that it can become more of expectation, instead of a surprise.

[00:27:08] Because I think layoffs come come around and then there's the fear and there's a surprise that you're one of the people that are let go right. Yeah, but I think when you're talking about what the workplace might look like it could be more like no no no, we're designing it, so

[00:27:27] it's more flexible, more temporary in what you're doing. Not an expectation any longer. Yeah, that's, that's going to be part of the future as well.

[00:27:44] And to put it in perspective like every single team I've ever been in is restructured up to the age of about or up until about sort of five years into my career, every team I'd been in restructured.

[00:27:57] And I always been excited about it. Because I was like, oh good it gives me the chance to go and do something different. Do you know what I mean? Like, I wanted to be, I wanted to get laid off. Unfortunately, I was a high performer.

[00:28:12] So I didn't get laid off. But that's the shift in mindset. It's like it doesn't matter what happens and I think that's especially important for you know millennials and for Gen Z is because you don't have to follow the stock standard career paths.

[00:28:26] You don't have to just climb the corporate ladder and the corporate hierarchy because I think when a layoff happens, you think that that's going to impact your ability to grow in your career and to and to get you know promotions and step up.

[00:28:40] But the thing is that now there's more portfolio careers. So careers where I've had five careers by the age of 35 so I'm 35 right now I've had five careers in my life.

[00:28:50] And it's like, you take all of those transferable skills and experience and you are the cumulation of like a cumulation of all of your past skills and experience you're not where you are right now at a point in time and what role you have right now.

[00:29:05] You are everything that's behind you. You have this, you know, entire wealth and treasure trove of skills and experience behind you.

[00:29:13] So it really doesn't matter so you can have a portfolio career where you have done multiple different types of careers. You can really go and be an expert and a specialist and actually grow and there's now more pathways where you can continue to scale up in your

[00:29:27] career without necessarily having to take on direct reports and managerial because in the past it used to be in order to, you know, to go up in your career, you had to move into managerial roles, whether or not you wanted to lead people, whether or

[00:29:41] not you actually wanted to have direct reports and have all the administrative and operational challenges and requirements and expectations that come with that.

[00:29:52] So now there's more opportunity to grow in specialization and then there's more projects and change and transformation than ever. So you can absolutely go on to some comments, go work in projects go work in transformation

[00:30:03] and then there's more exposure and experience to like completely new things that you've never done like I go work on projects that I've never worked on before in. I've worked in so many different industries, like I don't I'm very much like a Jill of all trades like I've just done so

[00:30:18] and what that means is it gives me the confidence that I can go and do anything else in the future. It doesn't matter what the industry is doesn't matter what the project is what I bring is my change leadership and my confidence that's what I bring to the table and I'm able to take that

[00:30:33] and the wealth of skills experience and you know relationships behind me to do whatever I want in the future.

[00:30:43] It's a great place I think for us to kind of close things up but is there anything else you'd like to add I thought that was just so beautifully said.

[00:30:52] Yeah, absolutely I think if you if you do want to sort of build that confidence. I've got a free guide if you want to go and grab that it's at my website lartahamilton.com slash worth it.

[00:31:03] You know it's around sort of building the confidence to change careers and earn your worth but just I think if you can just build your confidence generally, no matter what organizational change comes no matter what you're expected to lead and step up to lead.

[00:31:18] Or if you want to create new pathways for you in the future, you know it all really stems from that from that core of confidence and if you can build that up over time you'll absolutely have a very bright and diverse and like future full of opportunities.

[00:31:35] Yeah, so great. And I'll have that in the show notes and is that the best way for people to reach you is on your website or is there do you have any social or that you want to help people.

[00:31:48] Definitely come follow me on LinkedIn. I post a lot about change management change leadership confidence my life things that I'm doing.

[00:31:59] And so if you want like a boost of inspiration I definitely would say like come follow me on LinkedIn. I'd love to have you there. Well thanks. Thank you again for joining us.

[00:32:08] It makes me hopeful, right. I mean I just feel pretty filled and hopeful about the future so thank you so much for joining us today. You're so welcome thanks for having me.