152. Defying Expectations: Advice & Wisdom from Kristine Cherek Inspired by 'Tread Loudly' (Part 2)

[00:00:00] Welcome to Episode 152 of Girl, Take the Lead where each week we explore womanhood

[00:00:12] and leadership. And I'm your host, Yolani Canny. Today we continue our conversation

[00:00:18] with Christine Cherick to discuss her book Tread Loudly. And you may remember in addition

[00:00:25] to being an author, Christine is an attorney, executive professor and philanthropist. This

[00:00:32] is part two of two. And in it we'll continue our conversation about going for it like Elle

[00:00:40] Woods and we'll get some key data and research findings. And Christine offers her 20 something

[00:00:47] self advice as well as younger generations. Be sure to listen to both parts of our interview.

[00:00:55] Enjoy the listen and here you go.

[00:00:59] I think a good example of somebody going for it was Elle Woods, right?

[00:01:05] Absolutely. Absolutely. And you bring her up in your book in a couple of places. And

[00:01:12] for our listeners who may not know who Elle Woods was, in the movie Legally Blonde,

[00:01:20] she had, I think a 4.0 and super high LSAT score, which is the entry exam to go to law school.

[00:01:28] Right? Like, what was it like 380 out of 400 or something?

[00:01:33] Yeah. So she's in like the 98th or 99th percentile of LSAT scores. Right.

[00:01:39] That's what it was. 179 over out of 180. And you bring her up as an example

[00:01:49] of someone who can lead and you don't expect it.

[00:01:55] Absolutely. And I love that. Yeah.

[00:02:01] Yes. And she's smart and it's such a great movie. If you haven't seen it,

[00:02:06] listeners, that's your homework for the week. Cue up your Netflix, watch Elle,

[00:02:11] watch Legally Blonde. It's such a great movie because it works on so many levels.

[00:02:19] Some people see it as this, oh, it's a fluffy fun movie about this pretty sorority girl who

[00:02:25] surprised herself and was successful. But I think of it as such a deeper meaning.

[00:02:32] This was a, it's Reese Witherspoon, if you don't know the movie. This is Reese Witherspoon

[00:02:38] 20-ish years ago. Beautiful young girl who everybody just assumed was not smart.

[00:02:46] Everybody just assumed because of the way she looked and the way she acted and the clothes she

[00:02:51] wore that she couldn't possibly be an attorney. She couldn't possibly get into law school,

[00:02:57] let alone Harvard. And she decides to take on that challenge because she's chafing a boy.

[00:03:05] That's beside the point. It got her there. And she finds out that yes, she's different.

[00:03:13] Yes, she doesn't have what it typically takes to be a great student at Harvard. She doesn't have

[00:03:22] the knowledge or the experience or the background or the four generations of attorneys before her.

[00:03:30] But she's got all these other qualities. She's smart and she's tenacious and she's

[00:03:37] strong and she has knowledge that they don't know anything about. And so she finds this

[00:03:42] kind of power in herself. There's a turning point in the movie where she wants to give up,

[00:03:48] where she says all these people are doubting her and things aren't going right.

[00:03:54] And she's going to pack up and go back to California and give up on Harvard.

[00:04:01] And something in her clicks and she says with some inspiration from a female professor,

[00:04:08] you know, I'm not giving up. In fact, I'm going to win this battle and surprises everybody.

[00:04:15] And I think that's such a great role model that for us all to think about.

[00:04:23] So in the book I say, be like Elwoods, be like El the day that Warner, the boyfriend,

[00:04:30] told her she wasn't smart enough for law school. Live to prove him wrong.

[00:04:36] Live to stand on the stage and say, I did this. I got this. And not only did I do this,

[00:04:43] I did this better than you did. She doesn't have to say that in the movie.

[00:04:46] She's just standing on the stage giving the speech at graduation.

[00:04:51] Well, and you had your own Elwoods moment with your own law professor

[00:04:57] who threw up a major comment to you that I did.

[00:05:04] I wish I had been around because I would have probably taken him out.

[00:05:08] But I did. Tell me about that story.

[00:05:12] That was so good.

[00:05:14] Thank you. This was, so I went to law school straight from,

[00:05:19] I graduated from college in four years. So I was 22 at the time.

[00:05:23] And what a fact that not a lot of people know is that most law students are a little bit

[00:05:29] older. Average age is 26 or 27 at most schools. So I was young and I felt very

[00:05:39] intimidated and under qualified. And I had an older professor who at the time,

[00:05:45] I thought he must have been in his eighties. But now as I get older,

[00:05:48] I realized maybe he wasn't that old. But an older professor

[00:05:52] I think is a good example of how you can grow me for lack of a better word one day.

[00:05:58] The way law school works is it is a bit like you see in the movies

[00:06:03] in order to teach you how to think on your feet and how to argue and reason and react

[00:06:07] and be able to field questions thrown at you. What the professors will do is they'll pick

[00:06:12] somebody that day or that 10 minutes or whatever it is, and just start asking question after

[00:06:18] question after question. And you don't know it's coming and you don't know your day is today,

[00:06:22] so you better be prepared. And the professor was asking me all these questions. I don't even

[00:06:29] remember what the topic was, but it was a contracts law class. And he kept saying,

[00:06:33] but why? But why? But why do you think you're right? Why do you think this side wins? Why do

[00:06:37] you think this argument is the right one? And at some point I said, because it's just not fair.

[00:06:44] Like the way the court decided something just wasn't fair. And he said to me,

[00:06:50] the words that I can still hear ringing in my head, he said, you know, my dear,

[00:06:54] whoever told you life was fair? And I could feel like my face turning red.

[00:07:00] And I said, but it isn't that, I don't know, I fumbled through some kind of answer about

[00:07:06] this is the law and justice and fairness and what are we all here for?

[00:07:11] And he told me something along the lines of that I was far too young and naive to be in law school.

[00:07:18] And in the moment, I didn't, I don't think I said anything in response. I think I just froze

[00:07:25] and just bought back the tears as hard as I possibly could. And I think graciously,

[00:07:31] he moved on to the next person because he didn't want me to break down in tears

[00:07:35] in the middle of class. I don't know, I somehow fought that either rage or sadness or anger

[00:07:41] or whatever it was. And in that moment, I just wanted to shrink into my seat and disappear.

[00:07:50] And I let that really affect me. I didn't realize it at the time, but I thought,

[00:07:55] well, maybe I can't do this. And I remember crying to my friend, crying to my mom saying,

[00:08:01] this is what happened. And maybe he's right, maybe I can't do this. And letting that fear

[00:08:10] kind of shatter my confidence for a bit. But at some point, I don't know what triggered it,

[00:08:16] but I thought, you know what? This guy doesn't even know me. He doesn't know anything about

[00:08:21] me really. He doesn't know my history. He doesn't know what I've been through in life.

[00:08:27] He judged me in that minute and I let that affect me. And I let that make me lose confidence in

[00:08:34] myself. So I decided this was actually before the Legally Blonde movie came out, I think now

[00:08:40] had the timetable been reversed, I could have looked at that situation and thought,

[00:08:46] this is really parallel to what happens in the movie where she wants to give up.

[00:08:51] And instead of giving up, she turns around and thinks, no, this is what I'm going to use

[00:08:57] every time I want to close the book or close the chapter or leave the place or just stop.

[00:09:05] I want to instead say, no, I am going to prove this person wrong. I am going to use that

[00:09:12] doubt as the thing that motivates me instead of the thing that deflates me. So that was my

[00:09:22] Elwood's moment. But was there any more data that you wanted to cover with us today?

[00:09:30] Oh, absolutely. So when I tell people that I wrote a book about gender inequality in the

[00:09:37] workplace, sometimes I get this look like, tell me more, tell me more because I feel it too.

[00:09:43] I've been there. Sometimes I get sort of a nice, oh, good for you. And sometimes I get,

[00:09:50] yeah, sometimes I get some skepticism. Skepticism usually comes from guys,

[00:09:57] usually comes from older guys. And depending who it is, they'll sort of nicely say,

[00:10:05] are we still talking about this? Do we really need this? Is this still really a problem?

[00:10:10] I have a really good friend whose opinion I value greatly, who challenged me in a very nice

[00:10:17] but intellectual way and said, you know, at my company, we have so many programs for women,

[00:10:25] for people of color, for people who identify as LGBTQIA+, for anybody who isn't a white dude,

[00:10:33] basically is what he said. He said, to me being a 50 year old white guy, I'm the low

[00:10:38] person on the totem pole. So he said, how do you combat that? Or how do you think about

[00:10:45] that? Or what's, prove me wrong. Tell me I'm wrong. And so what I realized in writing the book and

[00:10:53] kind of going over ideas and things with my husband was the way to prove my point

[00:10:59] was to use numbers. Because if I say, you know, it's hard for women in the workplace,

[00:11:05] it's hard for women to become CEOs of companies. It's hard for women to become

[00:11:10] engineers and attorneys and doctors and whatever profession you speak of. Yes, it is. But you get

[00:11:21] a lot of, well, you just have to work hard and dig in and try more. But when you look at the

[00:11:26] data, it's really irrefutable. So there's, if you're not familiar with the consulting world

[00:11:33] listeners, there's a company called McKinsey and Company, which is one of the largest

[00:11:38] and probably most prestigious consulting firms in the world, offices all over the world.

[00:11:44] And every year McKinsey and Company does a comprehensive study of women in the workplace.

[00:11:51] And this is done in partnership with leanin.org, which is a wonderful nonprofit that works to

[00:11:57] advance women and girls. There's now a lean in girls movement as well, to help propel us

[00:12:06] forward in career and life. And also Stanford University. So we have McKinsey and Company,

[00:12:13] incredibly large, incredibly prestigious consulting firm, leanin, which is led by

[00:12:18] Sheryl Sandberg, who's the former chief operating officer of Metta, which formerly

[00:12:23] Facebook and Stanford University. So these three powerhouses get together every year

[00:12:29] and study corporate America, for lack of a better word, from coast to coast. Looks like my lights

[00:12:37] just turned off. Coast to coast, from industries of all kinds. And from engineers to consulting

[00:12:47] firms to healthcare to utilities to you name it, that profession is in there from marketing

[00:12:53] professionals to everything obscure like oil and gas companies to accounting firms, to law firms,

[00:13:01] to manufacturing, to you name it, retail, hospitality, hotels. You get the idea.

[00:13:09] And looking at the data of women at different levels of seniority across all of those

[00:13:14] companies, whether the company has 500 people or is a Fortune 50 company largest in the country.

[00:13:23] And what they found is that we see a drop off of women at each level on this proverbial corporate

[00:13:32] ladder. So at the entry level, women make up roughly 50% of the workforce. And that makes

[00:13:41] sense. Women are 50% of the population, roughly 50 or more percent of college grads. So we're

[00:13:48] good there. We're good at that entry level position, but just one level up or one category up.

[00:13:55] At the manager level, we see that the percentage of women drops from 50 to 40.

[00:14:02] So already early in career at a manager level, we start to see this massive difference.

[00:14:12] So we go from 50-50 to 60-40 immediately, fairly early in the career. One level up from there,

[00:14:20] it drops to 36%. Go up from there to a vice president level, it's now only about 32% women.

[00:14:30] So one out of three or less across the country, across the company, across industry,

[00:14:37] and it gets worse and worse from there. At the senior vice president level, it's only about

[00:14:44] 28% women. And at the C-suite, which we talked about earlier, only about one in four C-suite

[00:14:53] executives are female. And they're not just talking about the CEO, we're talking about

[00:14:59] the chief marketing officer, we're talking about the CFO, the head of human resources,

[00:15:05] legal technology, all of those positions. If you take all of them together, only one in four

[00:15:12] is held by a woman, regardless of industry or location or company size. And I think once we

[00:15:19] look at that, we can't deny the fact that there is a problem with women being able to

[00:15:29] ascend into senior level positions. That's the bad news. The good news is when you have the data

[00:15:37] and you know what the numbers are, you know where the disparity is, and you know where the

[00:15:43] greatest drop-off is, you can do something about it. Companies can do something about it,

[00:15:50] industries, leaders can say, what are our numbers? Are we better or worse than average?

[00:15:57] And why are we losing women? So that's the data. It's a long explanation, but I think it's really

[00:16:04] important to know where that's coming from and what those numbers are. Well, I think to post

[00:16:10] COVID, we've gone through a period of women leaving. Now, a lot of them are becoming

[00:16:15] entrepreneurs and doing their life differently. And it does seem like balance comes to be

[00:16:23] more of an issue. When I was starting, you work 60 hours, like 40 hour a week.

[00:16:34] Right. Same. Absolutely same. You just took it on. You just worked really, really hard. And now

[00:16:43] we know that working hard doesn't really get you anything except you've worked hard.

[00:16:51] You can say you worked hard. You worked long hours. And it'll be interesting to see how this all

[00:16:58] nets out because I do think that women are finding their way through this differently.

[00:17:07] And it may not look like the way that we got through it, but in corporate,

[00:17:16] it's going to have to adjust and change. Exactly. Can't just be the same old thing.

[00:17:27] Right. And I do feel like we are at kind of a tipping point. And I think COVID, for all of

[00:17:33] the awfulness that it was, it had the effect of really highlighting some issues in the workplace

[00:17:44] and in our lives and teaching us all how to sort of refocus on what's really important.

[00:17:53] But I completely agree. That's one of the things that I love most about the younger generations.

[00:17:58] So Millennials and Gen Z, I talk about this all the time with my husband, with my friends.

[00:18:05] I look at my nieces, and not only do they take less crap than I did, they're just not

[00:18:12] willing to do what you and I did. They're not willing to... I think about my 20s,

[00:18:19] I worked. I worked a lot. And then I worked some more. And one of my nieces,

[00:18:26] I remember when she was a little kid and we were going on vacation and I brought my laptop

[00:18:32] and I brought a whole suitcase full of work binders and all this kind of stuff.

[00:18:38] And I remember her saying, Auntie Christine, your job sucks. I'm never going to do that.

[00:18:43] And they just view the world differently. I think their perspective, they're so much

[00:18:49] more entrepreneurial. They're so much more self-reliant. They see possibilities where

[00:18:56] we didn't and they value their time. I mean, if 20 years ago I would have gone into my boss

[00:19:05] and said, I need more time off. I value my free time. Or I want to... On a Thursday night,

[00:19:15] I can't be here that late because I've got tickets to the symphony or whatever.

[00:19:19] I never would have done that. But now I see young people every day not only doing that,

[00:19:27] but saying, not only can't I be there Thursday night, but I'm not doing that. I'm not going

[00:19:34] to be there till 8, 10 o'clock really any night unless it's an absolute must do kind of thing.

[00:19:40] They're really prioritizing themselves, their lives, their interests, their whole selves

[00:19:45] more than I did. And I find that really inspiring. And I think companies are going

[00:19:50] to have to listen. I think some industries have got the message loud and clear and made

[00:19:56] some real changes. Yeah. Well, and you brought this up in the book about

[00:20:02] can't be what you can't see. But perhaps the way that we'll see this, the way that these

[00:20:11] generations will see it, it might be one of the more positive things happening too

[00:20:17] from social media is it won't necessarily be in the walls of the company, but they'll

[00:20:24] get messages from other sources that we didn't have. I didn't have social media. I didn't know

[00:20:32] that there were other ways of doing things. And so maybe that could be one of the positive

[00:20:38] things that does happen, that they'll get messages and support differently than the way

[00:20:44] that we did. I think this goes along with the perfectionism that we talked about earlier

[00:20:52] that we work hard, we do a good job, we have pride in what we do. We want to be great at our

[00:21:02] careers or our life, whether it's sport or academics or profession, we try and we

[00:21:11] want to be great at it. And we're chasing that perfectionism. And at least for me,

[00:21:18] I saw quitting as something wrong with me. I've stayed in a couple of positions longer than I

[00:21:26] should have. I thought if I just worked harder, tried harder, learned more skills or in school,

[00:21:35] studied harder, studied differently, studied longer, found more help, whatever it was,

[00:21:41] if I just rounded out more, that then I would succeed. And what I've come to learn over 20 some

[00:21:50] years of professional career so far is that sometimes you just have to walk away. Not every

[00:21:59] situation is for you. Not every company is for you. If you are in a culture where it doesn't

[00:22:06] align with the way you work, your work style, what you want out of life, what's important to you,

[00:22:14] leave. If you can and not everybody can. But if you have the ability to find a different job.

[00:22:21] For me personally, I got caught up in the competitiveness of, well this is the job

[00:22:29] everybody wants. Everybody's chasing this thing. So therefore that's the thing that I must want to.

[00:22:38] And I felt like, and I wasn't happy there. It was more hours, not the right environment.

[00:22:45] It's a great place. I still have friends there. Still have some very good close friends there.

[00:22:50] But it wasn't the right place for me. I would have been much happier in a company that was

[00:22:56] less competitive, more supportive, less of a swim atmosphere, more mentoring, more training.

[00:23:06] Kind of just kinder, gentler place. But I thought if I left that I was failing

[00:23:13] and I was hell bent on making sure I didn't fail. And now what I realize is by staying

[00:23:19] and staying and staying, I was blocking out any other opportunities where I could have been much

[00:23:26] happier. So sometimes you have to quit to get to the place where you can succeed and be happy.

[00:23:35] I think of the story you told about MBA. If you had doubled down and said, nope,

[00:23:42] to be successful I have to be the person at the top of the class in accounting or finance.

[00:23:48] You might not have found that you're really, really good at marketing. And so I think that's a

[00:23:54] perfect example of you have to quit. Well there you have to take the required course, but to

[00:24:00] pursue that as your career would not have been the right thing to do. You found something else

[00:24:07] by walking away from that and saying, I know I don't want to be in that field. You're able

[00:24:11] to find the thing you're really good at and where you can really succeed. And I think that

[00:24:16] that's such a good message, particularly for younger people to know you don't have to chase

[00:24:25] the investment banking jobs or whatever the thing is in your chosen field.

[00:24:32] It might be the best definition of success to close that door and go somewhere else.

[00:24:39] Well, I also- Giving you permission to quit.

[00:24:43] Yeah. And it's definitely so many times it's like dating, like guy looks terrific on paper.

[00:24:53] He's charming. He's all these great things. And then once you start dating for a while,

[00:24:59] not for me. And everybody else might look at it and say, are you crazy?

[00:25:04] I know. And that's okay.

[00:25:09] And then all of the pink cloud wears off and you're doing the job day to day,

[00:25:18] and you really find out what it's like. But it's almost like the romance of it and getting

[00:25:25] into the job and, oh, we're giving you more money. And then I kind of look back on,

[00:25:31] I think I had like 14 different jobs in my career and none of them are perfect.

[00:25:41] Especially, you get to that point where you go, okay, now I'm going to find the things in it

[00:25:46] that I really like. And that's what's going to fuel me and bring my creativity in and

[00:25:54] not these other things, which I know at this point I don't like. I mean, because you do,

[00:26:00] you learn about yourself in the process. So anyway, good stuff. And I guess that's probably

[00:26:07] wisdom you would pass along to the Gen Zers and millennials. Absolutely. Anything else?

[00:26:12] Absolutely. That we could share with them? Absolutely. Oh, you have your whole life

[00:26:18] ahead of you. Millennials and Gen Z, remember that any particular job,

[00:26:24] any particular relationships, everything I've said today doesn't just apply to career,

[00:26:32] especially the example you just brought up about dating. This is just good life stuff.

[00:26:38] If a situation isn't serving you, if it isn't the right fit for you, if it isn't

[00:26:44] where you want to be, then it's okay to walk away. There was a great quote, so I'm a Graze

[00:26:53] Anatomy fan. There's a great quote for listeners who either aren't familiar with Graze Anatomy

[00:27:00] or if you are in a place where it doesn't broadcast or didn't broadcast, show about

[00:27:07] the lead character being a young female doctor rising up through the ranks.

[00:27:13] And there's a great quote where Meredith Gray talks about, are you where you thought you would be?

[00:27:21] If you look back at yourself five years ago, 10 years ago, wherever it is,

[00:27:26] are you where you thought you would be at this point or do you dream of something bigger?

[00:27:30] And that was another quote that really stuck with me and I always sort of used to check

[00:27:35] myself. Is this where I thought I would be? Is this where I want to be or do I dream of

[00:27:42] something bigger? You know, I wrote a book. I am not an author. I was an attorney. I

[00:27:49] practiced corporate law. I taught. I did a lot of writing, but they were contracts.

[00:27:57] They were articles and certainly not a book. But are you doing something that really fills

[00:28:04] your spirit that you love, that you're passionate about, that you are you?

[00:28:09] Is there something out there that you really want to try to do to go for if you can,

[00:28:15] if you have the means to do it, if you have the ability to be able to jump to a

[00:28:21] different position, a different career, try something new. Even if it's a new hobby,

[00:28:25] you always wanted to, I don't know, climb a mountain or go water skiing or whatever it is.

[00:28:30] Are you going to look back someday and think, I wish I would have tried?

[00:28:35] And if so, just do it now. Why not? Why not? My mom, I'll have to close,

[00:28:43] share one last piece of advice that my mom gave me. No one in my family is an attorney. No

[00:28:49] one had ever gone to law school. My sister, my older sister was actually the first person on

[00:28:55] either side of our family to go to college and I was the second. And I remember when I

[00:29:01] was in high school telling my mom, I had this dream about going to law school,

[00:29:06] but I was really scared because it's a long road. It's four years of undergraduate degree

[00:29:13] or five or however many years that undergrad degree takes one than three years after that.

[00:29:20] And I remember saying to my mom, worst case or best case scenario, the fastest I could do

[00:29:26] this, I wouldn't graduate until I was 25 years old. And that's if everything lined up,

[00:29:34] if I finished my undergrad in four years, if I got into a law school,

[00:29:38] if I finished that in three, I'd be 25 years old. And she said to me,

[00:29:44] someday you're going to be 25 anyway. Do you want to be 25 years old with a law degree

[00:29:50] or 25 years old without one? And that was just like this light bulb moment for me.

[00:29:57] You know, yeah, someday you're going to be 50 anyway. Do you want to be 50 and say,

[00:30:02] I jumped out of an airplane or not? And if you think, yeah, I wish I would have done that,

[00:30:08] then do it. I think that is my take, my best advice. There are so many things I was afraid

[00:30:13] to do in life that now I'm just, what the heck, I'm going to write a book, see if I can

[00:30:20] do it. So I hope that inspires people. Well, I'm so glad you wrote the book. I mean,

[00:30:25] I get to meet you and hear about you. And it was just wonderful. So one last question though,

[00:30:32] girlfriend, what would you tell your 20 something today? Oh gosh. I would tell my 20 something

[00:30:42] all that stuff I just said, but I would also say, you know, it's whatever you're going to

[00:30:47] do in life, it will surprise you. You can have life will surprise you. You can have the best laid

[00:30:55] plans and the universe will laugh in your face and throw something at you. And that's okay.

[00:31:02] You're going to be okay. You know, if someone would have told me that I would end up moving

[00:31:08] from where my husband and I both grew up from our, we grew up in Wisconsin,

[00:31:14] didn't know each other until after college, that we would end up moving across the country.

[00:31:19] And I would drop my corporate law career and start teaching at a university. I would have said,

[00:31:24] you're crazy. If four years ago, someone would have said, you're going to write a book. I

[00:31:30] would say, no, I'm not. That's not my thing. You can have a plan and life is just going to

[00:31:37] happen and roll with it. And that's, that's what's really fun. Frankly, that's what's really

[00:31:45] exciting. Go with it. Take on the experiences. Maybe make that move across the country. Maybe

[00:31:55] take that job. Maybe go on that date that you thought you were going to turn down.

[00:32:01] Life can take you in some really interesting, fun places and experiences and you can plan it,

[00:32:09] but it's just not going to go the way you planned. And that's, that's not only okay.

[00:32:14] That's great. How boring it would be if everything went the way we wanted it to go.

[00:32:22] Yeah, definitely. We don't get to control this stuff. We think we can.

[00:32:29] We just don't. We try, but we just really can't. Absolutely not. So Christine, I think we've,

[00:32:37] I've exhausted you. I know I've kept you. This is going to be too. I haven't exhausted you.

[00:32:43] This is going to be too episodes because it's just such good stuff. Why don't we end with

[00:32:49] reminding our listeners of the book and where they can get it and how they can follow you?

[00:32:55] Absolutely. The book is called Tread Loudly and I'll show it so you can see the bright pink

[00:33:02] for to symbolize not only femininity, but power and empowerment and strength.

[00:33:09] It's available on Amazon. It's also available. There's a great website called bookshop.org.

[00:33:16] If you haven't ever been there, it's a great one to check out. They source all that. You

[00:33:21] can order just like you would on Amazon and it's sourced through local indie bookstores.

[00:33:27] So you can designate your favorite indie bookstore and they'll ship it directly from that bookstore.

[00:33:34] It's on Barnes and Noble dot com, pretty much anywhere you buy books. It's available

[00:33:40] and I am on Instagram under both Tread Loudly, the name of the book or my name,

[00:33:46] Kay Cherick. It's chair like a chair. You can find me on Instagram. You can find me on LinkedIn

[00:33:52] under my regular name. I do Facebook too, although not as active and maybe to the

[00:34:01] embarrassment of my millennial and Gen Z nieces, I do have a TikTok under Tread Loudly.

[00:34:07] So I probably most active on Instagram. So Tread Loudly or Kay Cherick, send me your

[00:34:13] questions. I love hearing from people. I'm happy to share whatever bits of

[00:34:21] wisdom or don't do this, don't do what I did kind of advice that I have.

[00:34:27] LESLIE KENDRICK Perfect. Well, thank you again for joining us,

[00:34:31] Chris. It was so much fun. Appreciate it very much.

[00:34:34] CHRISTINE Thank you. It's such a pleasure. It's such a pleasure. I really appreciate it.

[00:34:37] LESLIE KENDRICK Thank you for listening today and we sure hope you enjoyed this episode.

[00:34:41] If you did, please leave a comment wherever you listen to your podcasts. Tell a friend about us,

[00:34:49] join our public Facebook group, Girl Take the Lead or visit our website, girltaketheliedpod.com.

[00:34:57] We also have a YouTube channel where your subscription would be appreciated

[00:35:01] once you're on YouTube search at Girl Take the Lead. And we've recently expanded to

[00:35:07] YouTube Music where you can find a video of this episode.

[00:35:13] So here are the three takeaways from this two-part series.

[00:35:17] One, we can't have it all and trying to be perfect robs us of our happiness.

[00:35:25] Others that we think have it all really don't.

[00:35:29] Two, we can begin to change our lives by changing a few beliefs within ourselves.

[00:35:36] Be determined. Be ambitious. Believe in yourself and take chances, just like Al Woods did.

[00:35:45] Three, quitting is not failure and can be the only way sometimes to achieve success

[00:35:52] in the long term. Next week we'll have another two-parter with our friend

[00:36:00] Andrea Main Dewitt who returns to our show.

[00:36:04] Andrea has been a true friend and she's just launched a workbook

[00:36:09] to go with her book, Name, Claim and Reframe.

[00:36:13] I had the honor of receiving an advanced release

[00:36:17] and writing a book jacket endorsement for the Name, Claim and Reframe workbook.

[00:36:24] Here's what I said. Andrea provides a gentle path to examining the origin of our core wound beliefs

[00:36:33] and limited thinking on a deeper level so we can let go of people pleasing and quiet,

[00:36:39] even the loudest inner critic. Her step-by-step process is a masterful blend of

[00:36:45] transformative insights and practical exercises designed to awaken an inner power that is both

[00:36:53] empowering and impactful. And can I get an amen to that?

[00:37:00] Thanks for being here and talk to you soon. Bye.