224. Women in Leadership: Changemakers Wanted to Rise Up!

[00:00:06] Welcome to episode 224 of Girl, Take the Lead, where each week we explore womanhood and leadership. And I'm your host, Yolanda Canny. Danae Wilson, a millennial and author of Changemakers Wanted, is dedicated to women's empowerment. She is the award-winning co-founder and CEO of Better Certify.

[00:00:30] Recognized as a 40 Under 40 honoree, her work is not just about business. It's about creating pathways for future generations of female leaders, providing both a practical and aspirational blueprint. Here's what you'll learn in this episode. The importance of Changemakers, personal branding, which is who we are,

[00:00:55] and more about vulnerability, which can be used to dismantle shame and fear. More about boundary setting and female mentors. Enjoy the listen. Here you go. So Danae, welcome to Girl, Take the Lead. This is, and congratulations on the launch of your book. Thank you.

[00:01:19] Oh my goodness. It was so, it was so great to read it for a lot of reasons that we'll go to and through in the, in this episode. But I think you, you brought such a, a depth and fullness to this conversation of change. And so anyway, I wanted you to know that I appreciated that very much.

[00:01:39] Well, thank you. Yeah. I'm a, I'm a learner by nature and an educator by trade. And I really approached writing this book like that. I had questions I needed to answer. And then I was like, how do I put this in a way that it can, then other people can take little tidbits from it too. Yeah. Well, why don't we start? If you wouldn't mind telling our listeners a bit more about yourself and introduce yourself to them.

[00:02:05] Yeah. So I'm Danae Wilson. I am a CEO of Better Certify. Better Certify works in this little niche of a world in the construction industry. We do occupational training for hazardous material testing and removal. My company has been in business for 10 years. My entire career has been in this space and it's a heavily male dominated industry. 18% is female.

[00:02:33] So I am well-versed on what it's like to work in a room full of, of men. And I am a new mother. I just became a mother in 2022 at the end. My daughter just turned two last October. And then I just became an author of Changemakers Wanted, which is a blueprint targeting change, especially aimed at women's empowerment.

[00:02:57] Yeah. So tell us a little bit more about the book, like why you wrote it and, um, and the different elements to it. I know what I always love seeing the workbook kind of included in there, some exercises for us to do, but, um, what, what drove you to, to write the book?

[00:03:17] On the first level, the, the main thing that drove me is having my daughter and really looking down at this little baby and a baby girl and being like, what is the world? What is the corporate world going to look like when she wants to become a leader, if she wants to become a leader? And honestly, I wasn't happy with it. I really was worried about, I still am quite worried about, um, what kind of world she's going to inherit.

[00:03:47] And I knew that I wanted to take more responsibility for crafting this world for her. So the book is an endeavor in how I can, as well as how we can create a better world for our future daughters that are going to inherit it.

[00:04:05] And, um, the second thing that really interested me when, when writing this book was I, or for writing the book rather, but I grew up in, um, an environment where a lot of our mothers said we could be anything. A lot of our fathers said we could be anything while majority of our mothers were still working as stay at home mothers or, um, performing caretaking as their, their primary role.

[00:04:35] And so it's the first time generationally that we haven't really had examples of, of a lot of our mothers being in the workforce while we were younger. But yet the dialogue, the narrative that we heard was that there were, that any job was possible. We didn't just, uh, need to have a caretaking role.

[00:04:58] And so what I started to see was a lot of my colleagues that we would graduate college with advanced degrees and, um, some of them with masters and doctorates from DU, which is a very expensive and prestigious, uh, university in Colorado. And within a few years of having their children, they were no longer using their degrees.

[00:05:22] And I saw this rampant, you know, almost every female friendship that I had followed the same path. And I really wanted to know, not only was what was the theory behind this, but what was the actual data behind this? And then what could we do as an organization? What could we do as CEOs and leaders to help make a pathway, carve a pathway for women who want to be back in the workforce to be back in the workforce? Yeah.

[00:05:52] Well, definitely. One of the, one of the great things about your book too, is the research that you bring to it. So I really appreciated that aspect of it. Um, one of the things you, you make, um, one of the, you, you call out to change makers to go beyond being leaders and not just call for change, but also join the front lines of inflictions. And I read that and I went, I wonder what that means.

[00:06:21] Cause I, I immediately went to, um, you know, leaders, you know, like take charge and take the mountain and make the change. But I think you see something a little different there. This all started with, um, me reading Sheryl Sandberg's lean in book and in 2013 is when it was published. And it was that ignition that encouraged me to lean in more into my work.

[00:06:49] Um, I would, I talk about like answering the questions of what would you do if you weren't afraid? So it gave me this extra to get over maybe this hurdle that I was feeling from not seeing a lot of women in leadership positions in my industry, or, um, maybe not feeling quite as welcomed or that there was a path that I could follow or even mentors around me.

[00:07:11] And now I'm looking back at that, which is kind of funny before I wrote this book, I was like, it has been 11 years now, you know, 13 years. And since that book was written and I am shocked at the amount of progress that has not been made. And so, right. And my book coach, okay. You know, and a lot of women say that.

[00:07:38] So my book coach, um, Bonnie, which she is absolutely amazing. Uh, she said, this is not what we fought for the life that you are living that our younger generations, primarily women are living is not the life that we fought for, not what we marched for. And so what I need, you know, this book really talked to initially it was going to be called rise up, but that, you know, title was really heavily saturated.

[00:08:06] And so, but also we need this foundation of change makers that are not, no longer willing to just talk about, you know, not rhetoric about what needs to be changed. What is actually going to change and how we're going to change that is the dialogue that I want change makers to start to have. So if we're going to, because now today we have more power than we have ever had.

[00:08:32] We need to collectively use this power and harness it in a way that benefits us. So one thing that I can do as a CEO is implement paternity and maternity leave, implement childcare solutions, implement flexible work, uh, a flexible work environment for things that I can do today. That would change the trajectory of the individuals working for me.

[00:08:55] Hmm. Got it. I wonder too, as I was reading your book, um, and I mentioned this to you that, you know, my marketing background, um, one of the areas that I've really put myself into learning about, um, over the last three years has been personal branding.

[00:09:16] And it seemed to me, and I think you and I were aligned on this, as I read your book, that knowledge of who we are and our declaration of who we are has to be at the foundation of any leadership or change that we make. And that we want to make. And was that kind of your intent too, that did you see it that way as well?

[00:09:43] Absolutely. I start the book with a few chapters and a few worksheets and exercises on that very topic, because I'm asking change makers for a lot. One, I'm asking for you to say I'm a change maker in an environment where change is so prevalent, but also very biased and sometimes a little bit, um, scary to just declare.

[00:10:12] But you're not going to be able to do these difficult things that I'm asking to be done. You're not going to be able to implement a grandiose change within your environment, within your organization. If you don't first know to the core of your being, who you are and how that plays out into what you're trying to do. So for me, I needed to know what does humanity mean to me? What does ethics mean to me? What does equality mean to me?

[00:10:40] And in order to get to that point, you have to do, you know, brand development, personal brand development, and really look into not just the surface of like what religion you are, what race you are, what culture you live in. But at the core of your being, what does this mean to you and how do you see it materializing in your day-to-day life? Yeah. Yeah. Words I know you used in the book like passion and, um, mission.

[00:11:10] Um, definitely. And I think, I think it was a great, um, you did a great job of explaining the differences because sometimes people just get overwhelmed with, I guess it's just to know what I am. But when you break it into little parts and you examine those pieces, it's, it's much more, um, attainable and you can see it. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:11:36] And I also think one of the things that I loved was that you said that vulnerability, uh, dismantles shame and fear. And so when you're talking about, you know, change and being a change maker as being a little scary at times, it's, was your thought here to kind of prepare people for, you know, yeah, you're going to be vulnerable. You're going to be exposed.

[00:12:04] And, um, yeah, definitely. I can see that, you know, when I started my podcast, the first few episodes, I thought I was going to die because I had never been that open or that vulnerable. And it was shocking, you know, to, to do that. Now I'm much more fluid about it and it's fine.

[00:12:29] And I think everybody who's ever listened to me over the past three years knows my secrets, they're all out, but I can see that, you know, that kind of big change in somebody. It's pretty scary. And you have a lot of good cases in the book of, of, of people that have gone through this. You know, I wonder if there's anyone in particular that you'd want to share.

[00:12:56] I'm thinking of, um, so I have an anxiety disorder and one of the things that I talk about was since I had my first panic attack on an airplane, I just developed a phobia of flying. Which was quite a juxtaposition because I enjoyed traveling so much.

[00:13:19] I mean, as a kid, I remember just planning out my meal before, you know, three, four weeks before I was even on an airplane, which is just crazy. I would get excited about the entire thing, but all of a sudden I was terrified to fly. And I would, I talk about this in the book about how I took tiny steps, you know, time over and over again and exposure, expose myself to it.

[00:13:43] But the number one thing that ultimately worked was my constant investment in vulnerability and communicating to those around me, how uncomfortable I was. In a way that felt safe and secure. I certainly didn't stand up on the plane and say, plane and say, I'm terrified. You know, everybody. We're going to crash. Yeah, exactly.

[00:14:05] But by leaning over and saying to one person next to me, like, this is my first flight in a long time because I've been really scared. I've found acceptance and through continuing to lean into that vulnerability, this, the shame, this fear around feeling scared dissipated through the kindness of others and through my willingness to kind of sit in that uncomfortability.

[00:14:35] I am now able to travel all over the world. I took a flight, actually, my last panic attack was kind of funny, but I took a flight to Turkey and back on my own. And I actually, I didn't have a panic attack on the plane, but I had a panic attack in the airport because I was in Adana, which is, it's about a few hours away from Syria. So it's like really in the center of Turkey.

[00:15:04] And we go, it's three in the morning, my flight's at 5 a.m. So it's three in the morning, I show up and I'm alone. And the security is literally just right as soon as you walk in the door. So you put your bag on a conveyor belt. And then like nobody was even looking at the actual screen of the conveyor, of the x-ray. And they just walked in. And then I thought it was just a pre-security. And then I realized that was the only security. And I'm like, oh my gosh, am I safe?

[00:15:32] You know, and it being that I was tired too, it was a compounding thing. But I think that sounds like it was probably grounded. Like a lot of fear there. It was. When you're used to having panic about so many things that aren't quite logical, it's hard to realize that there are some things that anybody else would panic about.

[00:15:57] And you kind of have to look at it with that framework and say, you know what, Dania, this is completely reasonable. And anybody else would feel a little bit nervous. But it was kind of funny. That's not your first reaction. Definitely. Definitely. Okay. One of my other favorite things in the book was when you talk about Shonda Rhimes and her little commencement comments that she made.

[00:16:25] And I'm wondering if you wouldn't mind reading it for us so our listeners benefit from it. Yeah, I love it right here. I loved it in the book. So this is from her 2014 commencement for Dartmouth. And she says, and it's not the full one, but the part that really resonated well with me. The answer is this. I don't. Whenever you see me somewhere succeeding in one area of my life, that certainly means that I'm failing in another area of my life. That is the trade-off.

[00:16:55] That is the Faustian bargain one makes with the devil that comes with being a powerful working woman who is also a powerful mother. You never feel 100% okay. You never get your sea legs. You are always a little nauseous. Something is always lost. Something is always missing. Wow. I think she gave us permission there, right?

[00:17:19] Not to have to be, well, perfect and do everything and do everything perfectly. I really thought that, you know, she was giving us permission. It reminded me too of when Renee Brown says it's never 50-50 in a marriage. Sometimes it's 80-20, you know, one way or another. And, you know, I thought that was good too, because I think it's more fluid.

[00:17:47] It gives us this fluidity that, yeah, may not, it may not look like the picture of what we thought it was going to look like. But it's okay. Yeah. Right? Was that what you were trying to communicate there? A couple things. One, I always appreciate someone else's vulnerability.

[00:18:14] I always appreciate them speaking honest and true, especially when it comes to that play between motherhood and your career. Because it's such a dynamic one, and there's so many different experiences. And as I'm sitting here writing this book, I felt the same way. I wanted to be there for my child and a lot of these experiences that she was having.

[00:18:41] But I also wanted to be very successful in my career. And it was ultimately, it is ultimately impossible for me to do both at the highest capacity. The other thing that I wanted to say is that right now what I'm reading and what I'm researching is just on equality as a whole. You know, what does this definition of equality look like?

[00:19:06] And I think so many organizations, a lot of our society is trying to make it 50-50. But you're right. Like, it isn't 50-50. If we look at, like, the biology of things, the biology of motherhood, it is rarely 50-50. And so how do we take that to be true and then incorporate that in our flexibility policies around our organization's leadership?

[00:19:36] Yeah. Well, definitely. I mean, I'm at a point now where my children are adults, and I somehow survived those years. I look back and it's a complete fog. But I do know, I was thinking about you this morning, like I was thinking about where I, as mom, you know, I was a senior vice president of marketing when I had my first one.

[00:20:04] And then my second one, I went into being, I had a position of being a director of marketing on a global basis. And then as the kids grew, I went, okay, maybe the nonprofit route will give me more flexibility. So I kind of went that route.

[00:20:26] So then there was this moment when they were in high school, for example, where I had been laid off, where I was consulting and being on the swim deck while they were doing their meets and water polo games. And, you know, I just had the best life.

[00:20:52] I mean, I thought I had the best life to be able to do those things with them. And then, you know, I never had to really leave completely and start over like a lot of women I know do. I was able to kind of keep my hands into the marketing game. And then, but, you know, I never got back up to that level, that C-suite level.

[00:21:21] I was, you know, I was at the director level, which was fine for me, you know. And I can see how you're, you know, like maybe I, like today would look at that and go, but how do I get back up to that level? Because I took a step down.

[00:21:44] And you even brought some research in from The Economist, which so broke my heart, but I knew that it was probably, I knew it was true for me, but I didn't know it was still for 2024 that this was still the case. And here, listeners, the research goes like this.

[00:22:03] The Economist found for every child a woman has, her income decreases by approximately 4%, while a man's income increases by 6% by becoming a father. And I went, oh, I don't want it to be like that for my daughters. No.

[00:22:29] And the craziest part that I just can't get past is we literally need women to have children. I mean, we're talking about the sustainability of our species, the very core of everything that we are meant to do on this planet, but we penalize them. And what you were giving the example of is exactly how the motherhood penalty played in your life.

[00:22:58] And I think there is another, I think it came from The Economist as well, but it was basically 1.5, women are 1.5 times more likely to leave a position for a greater amount of flexibility than for a title. Yeah. And so you have men who are typically chasing the, you know, title, and you have women that are chasing the flexibility because the vast majority of caretaking responsibilities is on their plate.

[00:23:29] And I think a lot of times I'm, I'm a little bit different when I speak about this, but I actually is a, I am a very big advocate for allowing women to choose what they want to do. And I love caretaking. I don't want to be a stay-at-home mother, but I love taking care of my family. And so I'm, of course I'm going to take on more stuff. And I think that society needs to look at like, if we're truly going to respect women, then we're going to give them the ability to choose what they want to do in all capacities.

[00:23:58] And we need to stop penalizing them financially. One day, I really would hope we could figure out a way to compensate for the job of childcare. Yeah. And I think also a way to support, I know you have some thoughts about the return to office, you know, resistance, but like I knew I couldn't do it all.

[00:24:29] And having that time and that flexibility when I was consulting and being on the water in the, at the water polo games, um, I, I didn't feel regret about that. I didn't feel regret, not getting back to that level of VP at all. It was almost like I, I did what I wanted to do. And that ceiling that I hit was like, okay, I hit the ceiling.

[00:24:58] I'm good. I got there. And, and really there, if, if you ask a mother to have to choose between being with their child or working nine to five, it's like, there's, it's like, that's a no brainer. I'm going to choose my children every time. Right. And I think that what we need to do is focus on that.

[00:25:27] There really shouldn't be a choice. And why are we holding a woman's contribution in an, in a organizational sense in a hourly component? So a nine to five, I know almost every woman I have ever worked with gets stuff done. And it doesn't matter if it's 40 hours or 20 hours because they have to go pick up their kids or they want to work part-time. They are getting their work done.

[00:25:54] And so what I'm calling for is like a complete rehaul of the system. If we're going to agree that maybe equality being compared to a man is not going to be the exact same when we perform as women, then let's rewrite the rules completely. Because we know that women in organizational culture is good for the company. It's good for the economy.

[00:26:18] So let's get women to do what they want to do and stop putting all these barriers on it because a man is doing it. And make it so that it's possible for more women to be involved in a manner that they want to be. And I know these are bold statements, but they are 100% possible. If you're living in a world where anything is possible within the constraints, obviously I know that as a business owner,

[00:26:46] sometimes it's not going to be financially viable to do certain things, but more stuff is financially viable than I think you would believe. We just have to stop thinking about how it's always been done and pave a new way to go forward. Yeah, I love that. And I think you also have in the book, a lot of good examples of companies who have made stride in this area. And are any of them your favorites?

[00:27:16] Do you have a favorite one? Well, absolutely. Patagonia. Absolutely. So good. We always buy their clothes because of. Yes, same. Since 1984, the foundation of the company, they have had on-site childcare.

[00:27:32] And so much so that it's ingrained, it's woven into their cultural fabric that it doesn't even get the attention that it deserves to be received because of how amazing it is. Because it's not taboo. It's not something, or not taboo. It's not something that they just added, you know, to be cool or trendy or attract new generations of the workforce.

[00:28:00] No, this is the owner. One of the founders said, well, in order for me to be present at the organization the way that I want to be, I need to have childcare. And she made it a guarantee into the entire trajectory of the company. And now they still, they have two on-site childcare facilities. They have a whole curriculum that they patented and created.

[00:28:26] They show that they have multiple generations working at the organization. They show lower postpartum rates for women because they're able to come back to the work environment and then go down and breastfeed their babies or they're able to go and see them during lunch. They show this, like, interconnection between the workforce because I not only work next to you, but my child goes to school with you. So we build this bond together.

[00:28:55] And I just can't believe that when I started to do the research for this, I was like, never in a million years did I think something that works so well and was sustainable throughout the entire, you know, multiple decades of this organization's life line was not quite as advertised as much as I thought it would be. Yeah, they're a great company.

[00:29:47] What about, I know you brought up, and we've covered this topic a few times on my podcast, but I think a bit of what you're talking to is boundary setting. Like, like what's not, what's so important to me is that I'm putting the boundary down now.

[00:30:08] Like, like, in my case, it would have been, I need time with my high school girls because that's the time I really thought that they needed me. But it turns out I think they needed me in middle school more than they did in high school. We won't go there. Yeah. Watch out parents because middle school's a little tough on these kids. A lot of trauma happens in those years. But yeah.

[00:30:36] Where high school, I think it was like, you know, it just played itself out. But I know I, I had, like, I just couldn't do it all. So it was like, okay, I'm, this is happening. We're getting help. We're getting, you know, this has to happen. And what are your thoughts there about boundaries and how change makers can use them? Yeah.

[00:31:03] Primarily in, in growing your, your confidence, right? So setting a boundary is the way of a personal protection, you know, protecting our well-being. And so it's a way that through boundaries, especially for me, because I'm such a people pleaser, boundaries are the way that I tell myself that I matter.

[00:31:25] And I think change makers having a good relationship with setting boundaries will allow them to also show that to future generations of women that are coming up in leadership. Because for so many times, you know, for so many people, it felt like the only way for us to show up as women in a workplace was to outperform, to overcommit, to always say yes. And we don't have to be like that. We don't. Absolutely not.

[00:31:53] And there's this thing that I, I am coining as part of this movement. So the movement that I'm trying to create is this or trying to influence is this rise up movement. And it's saying rise up as a way of saying do better, you know, putting this boundary of like, this is the way that it may have always been, but it's no longer something that I'm going to accept. Women's contributions are worthy, are valued, are needed.

[00:32:22] So we're now going to hold all of these social systems at a higher standard and expect them to rise up to our level. Yeah. Yeah. Well, sometimes like I know, you know, I've ended my corporate career.

[00:32:41] And as I look back, I can see how these things affected me, but I wasn't aware of it at the time. Like you just sort of do your best, right? To get through. And I think one of the things that your book is really good at is helping us become the observer because you brought in the research and you've, you've said, this is what the research says.

[00:33:11] Like, yeah, we, you're taking a decrease and it makes sense. But in that moment, you're happy to have a job or you're, you know, I definitely felt like, like that a few times in my career where I was, especially when I was like 50 and I got hired for a job. And I thought, wow, this is really great. I'm 50 and they're hiring me.

[00:33:37] And it was way less than what I had ever gotten paid before. But it was like, in the moment, I was so grateful to have a job at that age, knowing that ageism was out there.

[00:33:52] I mean, we all kind of find our way somehow, but, but I thank you so much for, for kind of blowing the lid off of these things so that your daughter has, and my daughters have a much better road than those that have gone before.

[00:34:17] So because a lot of my industry was, was male dominated, I struggled to find female mentors, female leaders that I could really look up to or ask questions for what should I do in this situation? And how do I show up femininely and strongly and, and respect what is so inherently part of me? And so I was part of a lot of like strong entrepreneurial women groups.

[00:34:44] And a lot of the women were, so I'm 40, a lot of the women are 15 years or more older than I am. And I would say a vast majority of the individuals, especially women that I, I network with and hang out with are older women.

[00:35:04] And what I felt was that these brave women have gone through all of these trials and paved their path, you know, by, by accepting or by, by their leadership and creating something new. But a lot of them seem to be very focused on their next chapter and what that looked like, you know, possibly within 10 to 15 years of retirement.

[00:35:31] And I felt almost this, this like attachment to them and fear that once they left our generation of women, that next one coming up into these leadership positions as we near retirement, we're no more, no more further ahead than perhaps they were or where I thought we could have been.

[00:35:53] And so what I'm trying to do with this book is, is really create a strong call to action to unite all levels of leadership, primarily women, to take on this charge so that we no longer have this be the continual narrative of our decades. Of gosh, you know, I just got through it. I wish things were different.

[00:36:17] Once I hit the glass ceiling, I pivoted, you know, all of these things that really don't have to be the narrative. They're only created because of the rigidity of our social systems. Amen.

[00:36:37] I just so love, you know, like your call, of course, to be a changemaker, but also your, your question, like, what if, what if? I love, I love that because, um, yeah, we kind of always took for granted that there would be certain things improved or better, but yeah.

[00:37:07] I don't think we had the upper hand. You know, I don't think we had the upper hand until now. And I believe you, I 100% feel it that maybe right now it doesn't feel like we have the upper hand, but the numbers are starting to shift. Women have control over more purchasing powers. We have more women in leadership positions than we ever have before. Nowhere, nowhere near equality of 50-50.

[00:37:36] But we're in a good place to push, to demand more, to make change happen. I have to tell you one thing I started to do was this, there's this spark pen that I've been encouraging people to wear to kind of like a little bat symbol, you know, of what it truly means to have people on our side.

[00:37:59] Because I know that you probably have experienced this too, but sometimes walking into a room where there's not a lot of individuals that present themselves the way that you are, immediately it's daunting. And if we're able to have this signal of change makers that are willing to have tough conversations, that are no longer willing to accept the status quo, that are willing to rise up for each other, all of a sudden now we have acceptance and community.

[00:38:29] And that's what I want to see more of. Well, this has just been such a great conversation, Denea. I really, really have appreciated it. And how can our listeners and viewers follow you and get your book? And yeah, it'd be good to pass it along to them. Um, so my website is Denea Wilson.com. And my book is Changemakers Wanted.

[00:38:58] It is available at all of the bookstores. I also have an audio book and an audible. And I have a sub stack. It's called The Spark, A Changemaker Collective. And that's really the ground floor of how we can connect and unite. And then we'll be continuing to move through what, what actions we can make from here. Excellent.

[00:39:22] So you've given great advice throughout the episode, but is there anything special you would tell your own 20 something self? Yeah. Um, I, I would say keep going. You know, if I want to make it short and sweet, keep going. Because I have gone through a lot, you know, agoraphobia to a divorce to, you know, changing my career.

[00:39:50] And every time I have conquered a new level of leadership and personal success that I've really been able to be proud of. So, um, I would say keep going and it's, it's worth it. Great. And I wonder if you had a chance to go to our online store. Did you see anything there? Any card or gift that spoke to you?

[00:40:17] I love the, the celebration, like the little champagne celebration with the pictures. I thought that, you know, at first I didn't know that it was like a picture frame that you can like slide in different pictures. And then I was swiping through the, the card, um, product photos and what a great idea. What a lovely way to kind of connect the card and personalize it as well as like with the stand up, you know, stand, you can kind of make it a photo album right there on your desk. I love that. Yeah.

[00:40:47] We've, we've, that's been a pretty popular one where, um, a lot of people like to give that as a gift, um, because it's, you can definitely personalize it. And, um, it'll be my pleasure to send that to you and you can pass along to somebody or put your daughter's pictures in there. I would love that. Yes. So sweet. Anyway. Well, thank you so much, Danaya, again, for your book and for coming on the show. Thank you, Alana. Thank you for listening today.

[00:41:16] And we sure hope you enjoyed this episode. If you did, please leave a comment wherever you listen to your podcasts. Tell a friend about us. Join our public Facebook group, girl, take the lead, or visit our website. Girl, take the lead pod.com. We also have a YouTube channel where your subscription would be appreciated. Once you're on YouTube search at girl, take the lead, and you can find a video of this episode on YouTube music or Spotify.

[00:41:46] Some of the quotes I just love from this episode were. It's been 13 years now since lean in by Sheryl Sandberg. And I'm shocked at the amount of progress that has not been made. Another one was, we need this foundation of changemakers that are no longer willing to talk about the rhetoric, about what needs to change.

[00:42:12] But what exactly is going to change and how we're going to do that is the dialogue I want changemakers to start to have. And another one, if we look at the biology of motherhood, it's rarely 50-50. How do we take that to be and adopt it into policies around flexibility?

[00:42:40] And another, setting a boundary is a way of personal protection. They tell us we matter. Here are three episode takeaways. One, today we have more power than ever before, but we must come together to harness it in a way and truly benefits us as women.

[00:43:06] How can each of us take action to change the trajectory of those we lead? Two, we're asking a lot of changemakers to declare their commitment, understand their personal brand at its core, and recognize how it shapes the change they seek to create. Vulnerability can be intimidating, but it's a necessary part of transformation.

[00:43:34] By openly expressing our discomfort, we can confront our fears, build resilience, and move towards acceptance. And three, research from The Economist found that for every child a woman has, her salary decreases by approximately 4%,

[00:43:57] while a man's income increases by 6% when he becomes a father. A clear example of the motherhood penalty. Additionally, women are 1.5% more likely to leave a job for greater flexibility than a higher salary or title. Imagine if we compensated women for the essential work of childcare.

[00:44:28] Our next episode will feature our guest, Tara Landis, founder of Bellrock, a Canadian management consulting firm that helps business leaders solve their toughest problems and implement lasting change. Her expertise is in the area of influence.

[00:44:48] And we explored what research says, and we dug into the differences between influence and persuasion. A must listen for sure. So please join us again and talk to you soon. Bye. Bye.