225. Unlocking Influence: Reciprocity, Authority, and the Psychology of Yes

[00:00:06] Welcome to episode 225 of Girl, Take the Lead, where each week we explore womanhood and leadership. And I'm your host, Yolanda Canny. Tara Landis, Gen X, has been the secret weapon hundreds of small business leaders have used as they solve operational challenges for over 25 years. She is a certified change agent practitioner from the ProSci Institute and a licensed influence trainer from the

[00:00:36] Chaldani Institute. She is also the Lead Faculty Member for the Bell Rock Management Training Programs, which are unique in both methods and results. In this episode, she brings her expertise in influencing others with tons of grounded research. And she is such an enjoyable storyteller when she talks about that research. So I think you'll really, really have a great time listening to her.

[00:01:06] She breaks down the psychology of influence using research backed insights from Dr. Robert Chaldani, Daniel Kahneman, and Daniel Pink, who we've covered before in some other episodes.

[00:01:22] Note, big note, big note here, you guys. When we talk about influence in this episode, we mean ethical influence, using psychology to guide decisions responsibly, not manipulate. Things you'll learn about in this episode, the difference between influence and persuasion, influencers in social media.

[00:01:49] And we'll talk about five of the seven aspects of influence. And the ones we'll cover are reciprocity, liking, authority, consistency, and scarcity. Enjoy the episode. Here you go. Well, Tara, welcome to Girl Take the Lead. We're going to have such a fun conversation. It's going to be great. Yeah, I'm really excited to be here. Thank you for having me.

[00:02:15] Sure. And why don't we start, if you would please, just to introduce yourself to our listeners and viewers, that would be great. Sure. My name is Tara Landis, and I have a management consulting firm called Bellrock. We're based in Canada, and you can find us at bellrock.ca. That's B-E-L-L-R-O-C-K dot C-A, where we offer management training programs, as well as strategic planning and implementation services focused mostly on smaller businesses.

[00:02:44] Mm-hmm. It seems like you've chosen a particularly interesting path that we're going to talk about today regarding influence and persuasion. Mm-hmm. So maybe a little bit of like, how did you get to that? And what do you see there as the difference between those two? Right. Okay. Well, maybe I'll start with just what are they?

[00:03:08] Okay. So influence is broader, persuasion is narrower. So another way to think about it is that influence is something that we do to nudge people along over time. Persuasion is a subset of that where we're actually getting someone to take an action.

[00:03:26] So for example, to say yes to a specific question. And I got influenced. I got interested in the topic of influence when the book actually was published first by Dr. Robert Cialdini in the 80s.

[00:03:44] I came upon it in the 90s when I was doing my master's in business administration. And I just found it so interesting that very small, often costless changes to how we operate can have outsized impact.

[00:04:00] And as I went on doing my consulting work, I found it more and more important to be able to persuade or influence people along certain lines so that we could accomplish whatever it is that that business wanted to accomplish. You know, how do you get someone to work harder if they don't want to work harder? How do you get someone to say yes more often? And so that's where my interest really started.

[00:04:26] So when we say like she's an influencer or we've talked about influencers in that way, do you, I mean, what do you see there? I mean, it seems like that whole industry has grown up in the last, I don't know, 10 years or so where we have this label now for people who are, is it just that they're masterful at influencing others?

[00:04:56] Well, I think maybe we're using the words differently in that context. So an influencer is using certain aspects of the practice of influence. For example, social proof. So social proof states that we do things that others like us do. We're more comfortable doing things that others like us do, particularly when we're uncertain about something.

[00:05:25] So an influencer provides social proof if I don't know what to wear or I'm nervous about my outfit. And then I look and this person who I admire and I'm uncertain, I would, oh, well, I'll do what they do because I want to be like them when I grow up. It also has to do with authority. So authority is taking the opinion of people who are considered more knowledgeable in that area. So again, if I don't know what brand I should be buying, I'll look to this authority.

[00:05:53] Presumably they have more knowledge about this than I do. So that's how it applies in that context. That's interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Because I can see that, right? We, the influencers will tell us how to put our makeup on when you're over 50. Yeah. Over 60. Yeah. No, absolutely. Because I'm definitely uncertain about those things. But there are other influencers as well. You know, there's long-term influencer in Canada called David Suzuki.

[00:06:23] And he talks about the environment. And he's been around forever. He's in his 80s now. And he's been influencing public policy for decades. So why do people listen to him? You know, he's just some guy, but he's an authority. He's got his PhD. He was on television for many years talking about the environment. So he's considered an authority. So when we're uncertain about what to do, we can look to those authority figures for guidance. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:06:52] So let's go back a little bit to talk about the book that you mentioned, The Seven Types of Influence. And maybe you could give us a bit more of the background of that book. Yeah, sure. So Dr. Robert Cialdini is the person who wrote the book. He was confused of how, again, in the 80s when he was doing his doctorate,

[00:07:18] he was confused why, you know, he'd be sitting on his couch watching TV for the younger people here. You had to watch like the whole show. And there was no fast forward. And you got all the commercials. Yeah. But yeah, in the way back time. But he would go and he'd answer the door. Someone would knock at the door. Oh, yeah. We used to answer the door too when people knock. But anyway, he would go and answer the door. He'd have a conversation with someone. 15 minutes later, he'd be sitting back on his couch going,

[00:07:46] why did I just change my energy service provider? I wasn't having a problem with that before. How did I get persuaded to make this decision? And so he started looking into it. And while there's lots of research on this, and there had been, the research really started around World War II with questions around how could Nazism rise the way it did. What he did was something a little different. It was innovative really for social scientists to do this.

[00:08:14] He went out into the world undercover and started actually getting the training from people who were influencers. He went undercover for the door-to-door salespeople. He went undercover at a telemarketing firm. He went undercover in a cult. All of this trying to uncover what are the common principles of influence that are universal, regardless of culture.

[00:08:39] Just what are humans, what works on a human being as opposed to anything else? And he found, at the time, he found six principles. He later added a seventh principle. So we're going to talk about some of those. Which do you think was most influential to you? Like when you read this, like which one impacted you? Yeah.

[00:09:05] The one that really resonated with me and got me hooked on this whole idea of influence was specifically around the idea of reciprocity. So the law of reciprocity states that if I give you something, you feel obligated to give me something back. If I invite you to a party, you'll feel like you have to invite me to one of your parties someday. And of course, it's not an ironclad rule. It doesn't always work, but it sort of stacks the odds in your favor.

[00:09:35] And the specific study that I found so interesting, because I was working in restaurants, was the study around tips and waiters. So if you've ever been to a restaurant, and most of us have, at some point at the end of your meal, the waiter or waitress may have given you something, a small gift like a mint on the tray. Well, it turns out that those mints have an outsized impact on the tips that people give.

[00:10:03] Now, keep in mind, when I was a waitress, we didn't have the card machine that would come to you. You didn't automatically get programmed in what percentage of tips you would get. And what I learned from reading this research is when a waiter comes, the control group was a waiter coming and putting the bill down with just some mints on the tray, right? We've experienced that. And what they found is when they gave just the mints

[00:10:30] versus giving a bill without mints, tips went up 3%. Well, when I was in the service industry, if I could get an extra 3% pay just by giving mints, I'm going to do it. But here's the thing. It gets deeper because what they found is when the gift is individualized, it's personalized to the individual who's receiving it, it creates even more reciprocity.

[00:10:56] So if the waiter goes, puts the bill down and then places a mint at each individual diner's seat, then the tips go up 14%. 14% pay raise just for placing mints. And the study went on. What if we gave a tray with the bill with a thing of mints on it and then walked away and, oh, for you nice people, here's a second mint for each of you. Tips went through the roof.

[00:11:26] Over 20% increase in tips. And so when I read that and I read, okay, I can get a 20% pay increase. I want to read the next study. I want to know what else is in this for me. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I would think all your marketing, all of our marketing listeners right now would be going, oh yeah. You know, we go out, we test what messages are going to influence the most behavior.

[00:11:54] We go out and we try different approaches and strategies to see what we're going to get. Um, and I, I just really appreciate that you're bringing this up because I think, um, we don't realize how we're being influenced in these ways to get this reciprocity, to get this exchange with someone else. Sure.

[00:12:20] I'm giving you the money, but what are you giving me in exchange for that? Right? Exactly. Exactly. You bring up marketers. There's actually a, a principle of rest, uh, uh, in, in reciprocity or another study from reciprocity where they did a market. They looked at a marketing study, marketing survey study. So the marketers were phoning people and asking for their time. You may have experienced this as well.

[00:12:48] They call you up and they asked to do a survey. Well, when they only asked, they would call people and they would say, do you have 15 minutes to do this market research survey? And when they did that, about 25% of people said yes, which honestly to me sounds like a lot, but 25%. Um, they then, so that's the control group, 25% say yes. The second group, they called up and said, um, hi, uh, Yolanda, uh, would you, would you

[00:13:17] have 60 minutes to do a market research survey for me? Not surprisingly, every single person said no. However, what they found is that there is power in making a concession. So if I ask you for 60 minutes and you say, no, I can now give you something. I can say, well, what if I just, what about 15? Can you do 15 minutes? And when they started at 60 minutes and then went back to the 15 minute ask, yeah.

[00:13:47] 44% of people said yes. Yeah. I could see that. And that's not, that's not like the difference between 25 and 44. That's actually a 76% increase in people saying yes to doing the survey. It's an enormous increase. Yeah. And all they had to do was ask differently. Yeah. That's so powerful. Really? I can totally understand that. Um, yeah, I guess underneath this, right.

[00:14:16] Um, is our sense of selling. Like marketing of course is like putting together the strategies and how, and the messaging and the visuals and putting all of those things together. But the sales person who goes out. Yeah. And I think, I think the interesting thing here is Dan Pink. He wrote, he's written some great books, look them up.

[00:14:44] Um, but one of the books he wrote was called to sell as human. And in that, the research showed 41% of people or 41% of the average person's day is spent selling, selling your ideas, selling, um, whatever it is that you, that you're trying to accomplish. You know, in my household, if I have a way to make people say yes to me more often, my life is a little bit better. And you know what?

[00:15:11] Their lives are a little bit better when they have a way to get me to say yes more often. Both sides are true. Yeah. I think, um, sometimes we walk around saying, you know, poo poo on selling, but we are doing it all the time. All the time. In fact, almost, almost half your time. Yeah. So when it comes to your clients, are you like helping coach them in, in this area and under

[00:15:39] and providing them some kind of understanding of some of these principles and dynamics? Yeah. So we have a program that we can offer, um, that's from the Cialdini Institute, um, which goes in great depth into these principles. There are seven of them. Um, it takes people through the education directly from Dr. Cialdini online. And we can also do coaching around that so that they can take the theory, you know, here's a mint.

[00:16:07] Well, that applied to me very personally when I was a waitress. Um, but there are other ways to apply that principle. And basically in any influence situation you're in, there is at least one principle of reciprocity that can be applied and often more than one and they can be stacked. Okay. So we had another one. Liking. Liking. Yes. I like to do business with people that I like more than with people that I don't like, uh,

[00:16:36] again, all sorts of studies that have been done around this principle. Um, one of the more interesting ones that I can talk about when it comes to liking is before you do business with someone, build some rapport, figure out what you have in common, what's something that you, that you each like spend five or 10 minutes talking about that. And you'll find that you get to a yes more frequently than otherwise.

[00:17:05] So these people who are like, get down to business, do the work right now, you know, don't, don't spend any time on that fluff. They're just not correct. We like to do business with people we like. So find some sort of common commonality with, with your, uh, with your people that, you know. Yeah. So, you know, I had brought this up to you and I, I love that we had this conversation that in a previous episode, we talked about talk types. Yes.

[00:17:33] And one of the talk types was the A people were like informational, the B people were, um, experiential and the C people were deep thinkers or deep, um, looking for deep meaning. And I thought, I, you know, I said to you, it seems like if you're, um, a information person, you would want to sit down with another information person and just get to it.

[00:17:59] But you told me, no, that the research doesn't bear that out, huh? No, it doesn't. Um, and in fact, maybe the thing that you find in common is that you're both information people. Oh, of course. Right. So I, you know, I, when I start talking about things, I like to get down to business. Yeah. Me too. Well, that, that activates liking. So anything you can do to find these things in common, and there's so many different categories,

[00:18:26] you can have hobbies, you can, I can look in your, on your bookshelf, or I can look at your beautiful flowers that you have behind you and say, oh, wow. Do you garden? I love the flowers you have. How did, you know, we can have a good, a liking conversation about that. Very frequently people talk about my dog. Sure. Um, my painting of my dog. It comes up all the time and, and I've got a little story around it, but really a lot of people like dogs. So if I have a painting of my dog, then people start talking about their dogs. Now we can do business.

[00:18:55] That was so interesting. I loved it. You said the research doesn't quite bear that out. Okay. You talked a little bit about authority, but is there some more things you want to say about authority? Yeah. Um, so authority is that people, um, do things when they see other people who they feel are more, more expert in the thing than they are.

[00:19:21] And particularly when they're nervous or unsure about what they're going to do. So an example study of this one, they had a financial, they were doing a financial seminar. I mean, this is all in the lab kind of thing, but they've, they invited me to do. Right. And they start asking them a series of really difficult financial questions. You know, um, when does your mortgage come do? What will you do if the rates go up or down? How are you planning to save for your children's education? How are you paying off your student loans? All these different questions. You know, what about retirement?

[00:19:51] And people's brains, they had them all hooked up to those brain monitor thingies and people's brains were lighting up like Christmas trees. Like it was just, they were really thinking hard. You could see that. Well, then the, the scientist brings in, you know, this is Dr. So-and-so, the foremost world renowned expert in financial planning. And everyone's brains just calmed right down.

[00:20:17] And instead of all those bright lights and thinking and thinking, they basically just turned off their brains and started listening to what Dr. So-and-so was saying. Um, why did they do that? Because of the authority and keep in mind, Dr. So-and-so was another social scientist. Like he was a behavioral scientist. He wasn't actually an expert, but because some other person introduced him as the expert,

[00:20:43] some other person that they didn't know as an expert either, they believed it and they just calmed right down. So is there a quote punishment or penalty if the authority kind of betrays them or? Well, yes. I mean, when, when I, and I should have said this all the way through, if I haven't, we're talking about the practice of ethical influence.

[00:21:11] So when we teach influence, we're talking about using it for, you know, for good, not for evil, which isn't to say that there aren't bad, good for nothing people out there because there really are, but we are talking about using this power ethically. Yeah. So yes, there could be a huge reaction if, uh, if someone was found out to be, um, not telling the truth in some way.

[00:21:35] Do you, we talked, I think a little bit about the generation that the younger generation being a little bit more cynical, um, not trusting authority quite as much. Like you can't, I remember being told when I was teaching a professor, you can't listen to anything on Tik TOK. You know, it's like, it's not, nothing is on Tik TOK, but it seems like authority is

[00:22:04] probably of these seven types of influence, probably the one right now that seems to be tied to authenticity and trust. And other things, would you kind of say that that's the case? I would say that now is a really difficult time for all sorts of things. Um, and it is hard to know who to trust. And I think our traditional go-to, um, way of making decisions is really being upended right

[00:22:34] now. You know, for example, um, uh, Daniel Kahneman, who, uh, Cialdini's research is largely based on, on some of his thinking. And he talks about system one and system two thinking. And most of what we do, the, the scientific technical explanation here, most of what we do is on autopilot. Um, in fact, about not, he found about 90% of what we're doing is on autopilot. And that study from 2003 is further updated.

[00:23:01] And now they say it's like 95% of what we do is on autopilot. So as things become more complicated in the world, I think we need autopilot even more to just function. And yet we don't trust anybody. So we're in a really difficult place in the world right now. Um, all the individuals are just to even know what is true, what authority can you trust? And I imagine when people find one, they really glom onto them.

[00:23:31] And I think we see that in politics a bit today. Yeah. And they turn their brain off. I think it's kind of interesting. Okay. So I, I don't know how this will go, but I think Americans are, have historically been rather naive when it has come to authority.

[00:23:54] And, uh, I can remember back in the eighties and the seventies, it was, you know, we were, it seems like we've gone through this, this, almost this curve of less and less naivete. Like we've had to kind of grow up.

[00:24:17] And, um, um, I think this whole area of trust and, um, influence and how it's just so interesting right now to watch us. Yes. Yes. As a country, I imagine, cause you're Canadian. So you're looking at us and you're kind of going, what the heck is going on down there? It's a challenging time, but we're nice people.

[00:24:46] So we, we're trying to smile, but you know, when, one thing you mentioned, so this is politics is not my expert area of expertise. Although I do have a degree in political science. Um, and I will say that America was founded on people who were breaking with authority. So I would say if you, again, if you look way back, the Americans would tend toward, um, being against authority because culturally, because they're the people who rebelled.

[00:25:15] Um, and, and, and that was a subset of people who were brave enough to come and try North America out and, you know, change their whole lives, but the ones that then rebelled against the, the King, that was a subset. The rest came up to where I live. Yeah. Yeah. What can imagine you might be seeing a fair amount of Americans making their way to Canada? I, I, I actually, uh, worked with a client. We were doing strategic planning with them.

[00:25:42] And one of, there were five people on the leadership team and one of them was Canadian and very mega, very pro mega had the hat, the whole thing. And the other one was, um, an American who'd moved his whole family to Canada when Trump was elected. And here are these two guys, they're two of five on this management team. And I thought, man, this is going to explode all over the place all the time. They really got along. Well, they had very intelligent dialogue.

[00:26:12] It was, it felt like the way it's supposed to be when you have people on different sides, um, you know, very different points of view, but they could find common ground. They liked each other and they were respectful. Yeah. Oh, that's such a good story. They give me such hope. Okay. One other type of influence, um, consistency. Yes. Yes. Consistency is a really interesting one.

[00:26:41] And it's not about the influencer behaving consistently, although that's helpful, but it's about having other people that you're working with, um, agree to smaller things because then they'll agree to something larger to be consistent. People like to feel internally consistent with their decisions. So there are all sorts of examples for this one, all sorts of studies, but I'm going to tell

[00:27:08] you one that we haven't discussed before, which has to do with Gordon Sinclair's restaurant in Chicago. So if anybody's in Chicago, um, check out this restaurant, great place to go. Um, and they were a reservation only restaurant. So you couldn't just go and show up reservation only. So, you know, people would phone up again before Yelp and all the, or, or whatever app you use,

[00:27:36] people would call up and the receptionist would say, okay, so you want this many people at this time. Okay. Um, please call us if you have to change or cancel your reservation. And they were getting about a 30% no show rate. Now think about it. It's, it's reservation only. If 30% of people don't show up, that's a 30% drop in revenue. Like that's a big deal. Um, and the food will go bad and, and, and, and, and, so big deal. So what did they do?

[00:28:05] Well, Gordon was a student of influence. And so after looking at all the different angles, he changed just two words in that receptionist's script. And instead of saying, please call if you have to change or cancel your reservation, she said, will you please call if you have to change or cancel your reservation?

[00:28:33] And then she paused and waited for them to respond. Two words were changed. And as a result, no shows went from 30% down to 10%. Well, you were eliciting a promise. Exactly. Which changed the whole dynamics of that speech communication, right? Because people behave consistently, internally consistently.

[00:29:01] If I gave you my word, I should keep my word. Even if it's something so small as a dinner reservation. Yeah. Yeah. I can see that. I can definitely see that more at stake. Yeah. For us personally, when we exactly promise. Exactly. And there's so many examples of that, I think in the world as well, where people, they, they, they take a position that they weren't even thinking about when they took it, but it leads

[00:29:30] to these consequences further and further down the road as they go. And they want to be internally consistent. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Very cool. Yeah. Well, we could go on for this forever. Is there anything else that you would kind of like to share with our listeners and viewers? Yeah. I'm going to give you one more because I just love these tips so much. So this one is about scarcity.

[00:29:55] So scarcity is people want things when they can't get them as frequently anymore, right? They get, people are afraid. It's the FOMO thing. What if I miss out? So this was a company in, I believe they were in South America, but anyway, it was a chain of pizza places. Okay. Pizza restaurant. No, it wasn't South America. I think this was American. And what they had is they had a basic pie, like a margarita pizza, just cheese and tomato

[00:30:25] sauce. And that was, I think it was $12. And then if you could, you could add your pizza toppings on. So like you buy the original pie and then add whatever you want on and you get the price. And so the average price of the pies they were selling was $14 when you averaged it all out. Well, they flipped the script. And instead of starting with the base model, they started with the fully loaded pizza.

[00:30:50] The fully loaded pizza costs $20 and then people could take off whatever they didn't want. And the price, the average price of the pizza went up to $16. And you could say, well, it's only two bucks, but imagine hundreds of thousands of pizzas. That's a lot of $2 bills that are coming along. And so we don't even have $2 bills anymore. But what was acted on there was the principle of scarcity. Like I own the whole thing. I don't want to give up all of the extras.

[00:31:19] I only want to give up the ones I absolutely want to give up as opposed to getting the good toppings that I want on it. I'm afraid to lose out on the bad, on the other toppings. And so again, crazy change. They just changed the base model and increased revenue significantly. Well, I can remember too, in marketing, we would always want to put things like limited

[00:31:43] quantity or, you know, trying to get the call to action to be very quick and instant. Quick, don't change your mind. Yeah. Yeah. And that's also back to a little bit of consistency as well, which is why these principles, they often work so well together. So getting, you know, someone to say, well, would you want one of these things? Like, you know, if I can answer all of your questions, can I put you in this car today? Right?

[00:32:13] And here I go. I'm going to answer all your questions. Now you've got to buy the car. Yeah. And we only have one on the, on the lot that's like, and we've discounted that. So that's right. Might be wanting to move now. In fact, I think somebody was on a lot earlier looking at it and they were going to come back. So you better make your choice pretty quickly here. Oh, you guys. Yeah. Oh boy. So much fun. I love when I can talk marketing into some of our episodes.

[00:32:44] So how can our listeners find you and follow you and learn more about your business? Well, I'd love for them to come to bellrock.ca. Hey, we've got great downloadable tools there. How to have one-on-one meetings, learn more about influence. We offer management training programs and our next cohort starts in May.

[00:33:04] And the exciting thing about our training is that not only do you get the training, but you also get very specific tactics and tools to use and one-on-one coaching. So it's included so that we make sure that you're actually using the things that you're learning to create as much value as possible for our students. Okay. What would you tell your 20-something self today?

[00:33:33] This is what I would tell my 20-something self. It takes a really long time to make old friends. So find your friends and stay with them. Find your people. That's the age where you're going to find your people. Those people are going to know you through thick and thin through so many years. So that's the advice. Find your people and stay in the way. That's such good advice because we do find most of our friends in our 20s. I've read that before, too. So that's great.

[00:34:04] Okay. Did you get a chance to go to our card and gift store and see anything that spoke to you? I did. And I love the cards in the card and gift store. I really do. It reminded me so much of these handcrafted cards that I used to buy all the time when I was in Mexico. And I can't find them here. And so I was delighted to see that this is available. And I particularly liked the U series of cards, which is kind of funny because I like the design of the pictures.

[00:34:32] However, I like the messaging. The idea that I could just reach out and give someone a compliment or a thank you or just a, hey, I'm looking at you. I see you. I love that. I thought you might also like a snarky cat who says, trust your gut. I really like that cat, too. But I don't know how my dog would feel about it. That's so perfect. So Tara, it's just been so fun to have you.

[00:35:02] And thank you for, well, you have such an expertise and handle on the research. It was just wonderful. It's so nice to talk to somebody so grounded in what they're doing. So thank you for that. That was really, really helpful, I think. And I think our listeners will really, really like that. Right. Well, I hope to hear from them. Okay. Thanks. Thank you. Thank you for listening today. And we sure hope you enjoyed this episode.

[00:35:30] If you did, please leave a comment wherever you listen to your podcasts. Tell a friend about us. Join our public Facebook group, Girl Take the Lead, or visit our website, girltaketheleadpod.com. We also have a YouTube channel where your subscription would be appreciated. Once you're on YouTube, search at Girl Take the Lead. And we've recently expanded to YouTube music where you can find a video of this episode, and you can find a video on Spotify.

[00:35:59] Here are some great quotable moments I thought from the episode. There is power in making a concession. And then another, she said, in my household, if I have a way to make people say yes to me more often, my life is a little bit better. And their lives are a little bit better when they get me to say yes.

[00:36:28] And then another, now is a difficult time for all sorts of things. It is hard to know who to trust. Our traditional go-to way of making decisions is really being upended. And lastly, one of my faves was consistency is about having other people that you're working with agree to smaller things because they'll agree to something larger to be consistent.

[00:36:57] We like to feel internally consistent. Here are three episode takeaways. One, influence is broader and persuasion is narrower. Influence is what we do to nudge people along over time. Persuasion is a subset of that where we're actually getting someone to take an action.

[00:37:27] Influencers use social proof and authority when we are uncertain about what to do. Two, the seven common aspects of influence Dr. Chaldani found universal were reciprocity, liking, authority, consistency, scarcity, social proof, and unity. Many times we don't realize how we're being influenced.

[00:37:58] And three, 41% of our day is spent selling what we're trying to accomplish. We also like to do business with people we like. So figure out what we have in common to connect. Our next episode will feature our guest, Jen Hahn, millennial, founder and CEO of J Recruiting Services.

[00:38:24] Jen has spent her career not only helping organizations build high-performing teams, but also mentoring women navigating leadership in male-dominated industries. Her story is one of resilience and transformation. She and I talked all about making leadership sustainable, authenticity, and curiosity. So good. So please join us again and talk to you soon.

[00:38:54] Bye.