221. From Goo to Growth: Redefining Transformation

[00:00:07] Welcome to episode 221 of Girl, Take the Lead, where each week we explore womanhood and leadership. And I'm your host, Yolanda Canny. Rachel Burr, Gen X, author of Butterfly Goo, The Down and Dirty Truth About Transformation, joins us to talk about transformation. Rachel is an executive coach, leadership consultant, and people expert. She says leadership is challenging because people are challenging.

[00:00:37] And leaders are people. And most leaders land themselves in their roles because they're individual rock stars, not because they know how to lead people and they need support to thrive. Some of the things you'll learn in this episode are that there's a beauty myth around transformation and that transformation can be fun and will define purpose and transformation for you.

[00:01:06] She talks about social media and the goo. And there's a cave analogy we need to share. Enjoy the episode. Here you go. Welcome to Girl, Take the Lead, Rachel. We're so glad to have you here. So thanks for joining us. Thank you. I appreciate it. Yeah. So why don't we start, please, by if you would introduce yourself to our listeners and viewers, that would be great.

[00:01:36] Thank you. Yes, I am Rachel Burr. I'm an executive coach and people expert. And I'm also the author of the newly launched Butterfly Goo, The Down and Dirty Truth of Transformation. I got to tell you, I did love your book and the title, my goodness, was so provocative. So you have to tell our listeners about that title and why you wrote it.

[00:02:02] Why that? Why I wrote it? Well, let's start about that first. You know, I've been wanting to write a book for a very long time. In fact, I found my grandmother when I was in high school gave me this tiny little typewriter that almost actually works. It's a but it's tiny and something to sit on your desk. And when she first gave it to me, I was like, why are you giving this to me? Because she said, you're a writer. Someday you're going to write a book.

[00:02:27] And I've carried that with me over many states and many years. And I finally I put it out the other day and she's long gone. And I'm just like, you were right. You told me this would happen. And eventually I did it. I hope you're proud of me. Oh, so when you have her in the book.

[00:02:45] Yes, I do have her in the book. So I think for a part of it, and this actually feeds into the title as well. For the longest time, I tried to force myself to write a book that I thought was a business book or a coaching book or something I was supposed to write. And for those listening and not watching, there are air quotes on the supposed to like.

[00:03:08] And finally, for through a number of I talk about clicks in the book, like opening a combination lock, and there are things that happen along the way and that locks bringing open is what we think about as transformation. But it's all those little clicks along the way. And so I did a lot of things and digging and really trying to bring myself to write that book. And then I found out it wasn't the book I thought I was supposed to write after all.

[00:03:36] But when I finally had that moment, it just poured, it poured out of me. So it's fabulous. That experience really feeds into butterfly goo. Not the only experience, lots of experiences, lots of journeys. But for me, what's important about the book and that title is that we have this idea of transformation as perfect and beautiful.

[00:04:03] And the butterfly is kind of that quintessential symbol of transformation. And that's a big part of the problem is that the butterfly is beautiful. Yes. And the beauty distracts us from what is really required and how difficult transformation is.

[00:04:27] And so we have this idea that if we're not born butterflies, then we can't be butterflies. We can't transform. We can't grow. And it's really important for me. And it's really important for me to dispel that myth. Because when you really look at the process of transformation, even with this beautiful butterfly, the caterpillar is, you know, it's eating and it's consuming and it's getting ready.

[00:04:52] And then it spins its cocoon or chrysalis. And when it's inside, it dissolves into this green goo. And it starts to rebuild itself. And the great part of this analogy is that caterpillar takes everything it needs into that cocoon to build itself into a butterfly.

[00:05:17] It is not turning itself into something it is not. It is taking its fundamental building blocks and it is building it into the next or the best version of itself.

[00:05:29] And so for me, one of the drivers of writing this book was that if we deconstruct what transformation truly is and we make it more understandable, we make it more actionable, we make it more achievable. And then everybody can start to see their butterfly and not feel stuck and feel like I am stuck.

[00:05:54] I'm I have to stay stuck. I don't have a choice or I'm not good enough. I'm not smart enough. I'm not enough in order to really achieve what I want. So I'm just going to stay in this comfortable discomfort, essentially, and not try to push outside my comfort zone where, you know, where the wild things are, because clearly I wasn't meant to be a butterfly. And we never know what we're truly capable of until we try.

[00:06:23] Yeah. I think one of the things that you did in your book was you made it fun. Transformation can be fun. And you had the play areas and your back and the back part of your book is the work. To me, it was like a workbook. And you you had us, you know, go through different exercises. And I think that's really nice. It's a you know, it's one of those things in a book that you go, oh, this is great.

[00:06:52] You know, because sometimes you have to go download those things or buy the workbook or whatever. And then you've put it together for everybody. Plus, I think when you say, you know, let's go play. It makes us feel like there's no, you know, right or wrong way to look at transformation. Yeah. Right. It's a very personal thing that unfolds.

[00:07:18] So I really want to thank you for that and appreciate that you did that. Plus all the quotes you have in the book. Very inspiring. Like, oh, there's another one. I love that, too. And I think what's important for me about calling it a playground is too often we have these very stringent expert expectations for ourselves. And I am not saying don't set audacious goals. Absolutely. Set goals.

[00:07:43] Enjoy and give yourself space to play because that is so important when it comes to innovation and growth and and not being so focused and restricted on, OK, I have to do this by this date, this by this date, you know, et cetera. Transformation is not linear. It's. Well, chaotic is one word. It's it's not spherical.

[00:08:10] It's just all these different pieces. And to your point, it looks different for everybody. So, yeah, the idea of play is really to be able to set aside all those expectations and just see where it goes. Yeah. That I think is fundamental to our growth and to really opening ourselves up to the experience. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:08:34] I liked one of the points, one of your insights that kind of hit me, which was that you don't find your path. Mm hmm. You build it. Mm hmm. I thought that was pretty insightful because so many people want to. Oh, I need to find my purpose or find my own path on things.

[00:08:58] But I like that you put it in as a building journey because, you know, we can look back and go, oh, I was supposed to be this or that. And we never did that. Mm hmm. And because it unfolded very differently for us. And I think you're kind of speaking to, you know, acceptance of that unfolding, however it came. Absolutely.

[00:09:25] And even when we think we know the direction we're going, holding that idea loosely and which people I think sometimes people confuse this idea of being open and taking the opportunity when they come, when they show up with not being directed and not being motivated, not being driven. My response is this is life. This is the way things work.

[00:09:54] You may be one of those few people who truly has a linear path that, you know, from the moment you're eight years old, exactly what you want to do for the rest of your life. Right. And maybe you do. And for the rest of us that are out there, which my guess is the majority of us. Mm hmm. Setting this expectation for ourselves is not only unrealistic, it's destructive. Yeah. And so I think sometimes people think that path is going to show up.

[00:10:22] And I love I don't have the quote exactly in my head from Joseph Campbell, but essentially if you if you go into the woods and and you find a path, it's not your path. Someone else has already built it. And to your point. I think it's great to find inspiration and to do all that. But the idea of passively waiting for a path to show up or passively waiting for, you know, this inspiration of passion.

[00:10:50] We are denying ourselves agency in our own life. And and I think it's really important to say, you know, because somehow we think the universe or divine intervention or something will will show us the way it's like, well, what if all of that's true? And we have to actually build it to get there that as we build. Then we're going to figure out what this is. And I said to you, I like the idea is sometimes we're on a path because it leads us exactly

[00:11:19] where we're supposed to go down that road. And sometimes we take that road because it has exactly the exit ramp that we need to get to that next leg of our journey. One thing that probably we should do is define what we mean by transformation, because some people might be listening. I went into my head like, OK, transformation, it's like not being where I am right now, but

[00:11:49] you know, cooking it and working through things so that I can be a better version of myself. But I don't know. Is that what you kind of thought of when you were talking about transformation? That's interesting. I have what I think. And I would also put out as a good coach, I usually ask more questions than I give advice. I think what's more important is what's everybody's definition? What's your personal definition of transformation?

[00:12:16] And more specifically, what's your personal definition of transformation at this point in your life or in this situation? What I think of as transformative when maybe I was 20 years old versus what I am today is different. And it's not only different because I'm just at a different stage, but I have been all those iterations of me from the time I was 20 until now.

[00:12:42] And so I am I like the quote by Isaac Newton that if I see further than others, it's because I stand on the shoulders of giants. And yes, and I have so many giants shoulders on which I've stood. And let's let's not forget that we are also standing on the shoulders of all the people we've been. And so today transformation, you know, for me might be I'm going to write a book, I'm going to become a published author.

[00:13:12] That's great. It could be a friend of mine as an adult. She learned how to swim. And that seems for those of us who've maybe grown up swimming, it seems small, but it's not to her. That's what's important. So we get to define it. This is, again, not something else. Somebody is going to impose a particular change or a particular definition. It's both empowering and terrifying that we have to take ownership and decide for ourselves.

[00:13:43] Very good. So, so what do I know we talked a little bit about some things that can get in the way of transformation, but what are some other things? I mean, like what would come up for me is just fear. Oh, yeah. Here's probably one of the fundamental pieces of, you know, what gets in our way for anything. Yeah.

[00:14:05] You know, one of the things I say is that safe and we're good at trying to stay safe because we're very aware of threats. But safe and happy are not the same things. And, and I, someone else used to argue with me, well, you can't make yourself happy all the time. I think our definition of the word might be different.

[00:14:30] And that's true, whether to your point, the word transformation or happy or whatever, we all have slightly different understandings of what those words mean to us. And so I think it's important. What my happy means, like, I'm good. I like where things are going. I still want to grow. That's great. Fear is an ever present part of our lives. And part of what I think is important to understand is that when we're looking at growth, when

[00:14:59] we're looking at transformation, when we're looking at being brave, more air quotes, brave is what we look like on the outside. Usually it does absolutely not mean that we do not have fear when we're pushing through. Some people say, well, when I'm not afraid, I'll do X. And it's like, well, good luck with that. Um, you're going to be sitting in your comfort zone for a very long time because, and I talk about this in one of the exercises.

[00:15:26] We think, okay, when I'm not afraid, I'll do X or when I'm more confident, I'll do Y. Okay. And here's the thing. If we go out and we do X, if we do well, even if we fumble, we do all of that. We become more confident when we actually put those things into practice. Hmm. And sometimes we talk about the, the comfortable discomfort, the devil we know versus the devil.

[00:15:55] We don't fear keeps us small and it wants to keep us small. I talk about the gremlins in our head and that, that is always going to be a part of change because our comfort zone, we may not be happy, but we're safe. Hmm. The problem is that it's also not static. We start to become smaller, smaller and smaller, and the fear starts to close in. And so I think it's again, really important to understand that.

[00:16:25] Fear is a normal part of change. I want to normalize all this. It's a normal part of change. It's not a fun part of change. It's not a comfortable part of change. It's normal. And what I tell people is, yes, you're going to go through that. We're going to get through the stuck and we're going to work through that. And what I try to do is look at the intersection of what excites and scares you. There's something there.

[00:16:53] Go that direction and just know that fear is normal. It's not you. It's not that you're defective. It's not that you're, you know, alone in this. It's normal because you know what? You're pushing outside your comfort zone and that shows your growth. So is that the goo part of being a butterfly? Absolutely. The goo is all the sludge and the muck and the fear and the, you know, overcoming and the

[00:17:23] two steps forward, one step back. It is all the messy, absolutely essential, by the way, part of this. That caterpillar does not become a butterfly without this goo. And social media has not helped this. The idea of this curated life that, you know, everybody's a butterfly except for me. And it's just, let me think. I'm not sure your audience, let's just say it's crap because I have better words for that, but I'm trying to, you know, keep our PG rating.

[00:17:54] And it's, like I said, that is so destructive because we think we're the only ones in the goo in the swamp and that it's supposed to be this idyllic thing. That's not real. It's just not real. And so all of it is part of that process. And some of it, as you're going through this log, there are wins too. I don't want to make it sound like, oh my gosh, this is just this horrible drudgery all

[00:18:24] the way through. You get wins. You get to celebrate along the way. And it's also normal to then fall into another swamp. It's all part of the process. And so I think it's important to find ways to understand that it's part of the process, to not get discouraged, or rather, you will get discouraged. We all get discouraged. So how do we move beyond discouraged to, again, making progress?

[00:18:54] Yeah, all of that is part of the goo. And it's just part of the process. And we get to decide if going through the goo is worth the transformation and who we want to be and where we want to go. Well, one of the things you have in there is the quote about, I think it was Joseph Campbell's

[00:19:17] quote about caves, about looking at, I think it was in your abyss area, right? Looking at caves that we're afraid to enter. Yes. And then also not judging someone else's cave, right? Because we don't know what they've gone through or what their cave is about. Yeah.

[00:19:42] So maybe you could talk a little bit more about that, the cave analogy that you used in the book. I would love to. And it's actually Campbell's analogy. And he refers to it sometimes as the cave. He refers to it sometimes as the abyss. And the way he talks about it is there are the normal kind of trials and tribulations that we go through in any kind of journey.

[00:20:11] And there's usually this one thing when we're talking about fear and what's maybe held us back from the journey before. There's this one deep, dark place that we're afraid to go. Because there is, you know, I talk about it as the abyss and the old maps that, you know, with uncharted waters, there was just on the map, it would say here, there be monsters. And there are that we have our own, our own fears to confront.

[00:20:41] A lot of it is often in our past things that have either are still affecting us, have affected us and are continuing to move forward. And sometimes I know I've had moments where I was just not ready. I was not ready to go in that cave. I was not ready to dig down into what is it that's really keeping me stuck? What is fundamentally underneath all of this? And that's okay.

[00:21:10] You don't have to be ready at every moment, you know, for every transformation. And it's important to know, you have to face those monsters, you have to be able to go up against them in order to get past them. Yeah. And you don't have to do it alone. To your point, like what I said is like, each of our caves, the abyss, it's different. We can't judge someone on well, my cave is harder than your cave. This is not a competition. But no, we do that generationally. We do.

[00:21:39] It's like, oh, my cave is harder than yours. If you only knew my cave, you would know that I had this. No, you're at your cave. And the other thing people like to do is they give you advice based on their experiences, maybe their cave, whatever. Oh, you should do this. Oh, you should do this. Best intention. But that's based on their experience, their path, their caves, their adventure. What's important to understand is nobody can specifically tell us how to go through it.

[00:22:07] There can be people that are coaches and friends and family and therapists even that can come alongside us and support us in that process. But this is our cave. And we are the ones that will lead us out. And we can take this whole crew of people along to support us. Oh, well, I think you also mentioned, too, that you don't just have one mentor. You need a crew. You need a crew.

[00:22:37] Which I know is really good. Yeah. Yeah. So I think that's something, too, that's good to pass along generationally. Are there other things that you've seen that have been like differences that would help

[00:22:57] our younger generation listeners to have that wise moment from you about their journey? Well, and I'll talk about in the book, I have some key takeaways. I will also say that doesn't mean that they're your takeaways. It doesn't mean that they're anybody's takeaways other than mine. And hopefully they're funny along the way. If you haven't picked up on that yet, humor is very important to me.

[00:23:26] And not taking yourselves too seriously. Honestly, I can give my experience. I can share that with people. Can I tell someone who's now 20 what they're going to go through and how they're going to get there? Their landscape is different. Their world is different. I will say human beings tend to be pretty consistent along the way. We have certain hardwiring and software that hasn't had an upgrade in a very long time.

[00:23:56] And we're bringing it to this new situation. So I guess the advice I would say is really dig into yourself, understand as best you can. And it won't be perfect. We're not objective about ourselves. We're not objective about anybody or anything. We like to think we are. We're not. But doing that work, that internal work, the path you will build is not only outside you, but it's internal.

[00:24:24] And understanding who you are and what you really want and how you want to grow, rather than reacting to everything you're seeing outside of you and all of the pressures and pushing that you're going to get from other people or media or whoever, being able to find that solid core and to help you ground in your values, your strengths, your passions, all of that.

[00:24:52] Those are the building blocks that you will take forward. No matter who you want to become, what you want to do, those core pieces are fundamental in bringing yourself to whatever comes next. So on that theme, what would you tell your 20-something self today? Oh, my 20-something self. Let's see.

[00:25:20] Life is not as serious as you think it is. I was so caught up. And the problem is, of course, we all would like to go back and tell our younger self something. And of course, the catch-22 is we wouldn't be here knowing what we know without having gone through the goo and the slog. So it's a moot point. But let's go ahead and say I can't say it. So I thought life was so serious. And I thought I had to be perfect.

[00:25:48] And I thought I had to hide any imperfections from other people because they would see me as a failure. They would see me as, you know, imposter. We all talk about imposter syndrome. And I would just say, you know what? Breathe. Enjoy. Don't get so wrapped up in trying to do things perfectly and always trying to succeed at every moment of every day. You miss out.

[00:26:18] You miss out on the joy and the fun and even the slog that is part of life. You're missing it. And you can't get that back. So stop taking yourself and life so seriously and enjoy it. I think you and I had similar experiences during our 20s.

[00:26:42] Because I definitely was just charging ahead and very much, you know, out of my way. I've got a career. I've got to get built here before. You know, my life is over. I get married and I have children. Oh, craziness. Right. So it's so much fun talking to you and hearing about your book.

[00:27:07] Is there anything, though, that you'd like to leave our listeners and viewers with? Any last? I think two things. And you and I were talking about this with a couple of quotes from the book. And I'll read the piece from myself first. Right. I had listeners. I'd asked Rachel, you know, that there were so many neat quotes in there. Maybe we could end our episode today with her reading a bit of inspiration for us. So, yeah, Rachel, go ahead.

[00:27:37] Well, the first piece is just part of I'm reading just a quick section in the book and then I'll get to the quote. But real caterpillars have only one chance, one butterfly. But you and I aren't limited to a single journey. The end of every journey is the start of our next adventure. And inside every butterfly is another hungry caterpillar. And the quote we talked about was from Hunter S. Thompson.

[00:28:07] Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body. Rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out and loudly proclaiming, wow, what a ride. Wahoo! Wouldn't that be awesome?

[00:28:33] Getting to that point, everybody knows like, oh my God, she lived it fully. Absolutely. Oh, boy. So I, oh, one last thing. Did you get a chance to go to our online store? And I'm going to guess which one you might have picked as being your favorite card. But was there one there that spoke to you? I'm going to be transparent with you. I forgot. That's okay. I forgot to do that.

[00:29:03] I think. Tell me what you think. I will think. There is one that's a beautiful butterfly. And it says, with courageous wings, she flies. And I think definitely that is for you. I had no idea when I was making it. Oh, my gosh. So that, yes. Perfect. Maybe I should put something on the inside, though, about the goo. I am more than happy to have you do that. But anyway. All right. Well, Rachel, thank you so much for coming today.

[00:29:33] And we sure appreciate you being here. Thank you. I appreciate you inviting me. Thank you for listening today. And we sure hope you enjoyed this episode. And if you did, please leave a comment wherever you listen to your podcasts. Tell a friend about us. Join our public Facebook group, Girl Take the Lead. Or visit our website, GirlTakeTheLeadPod.com. And visit our store there.

[00:30:00] It's GirlTakeTheLeadPod.com slash shop. We also have a YouTube channel where your subscription would be appreciated. Once you're on YouTube, search at Girl Take the Lead. And we're on YouTube Music, where you can find a video of this episode. And you can also find a video on Spotify. Some of my favorite quotes from this episode with Rachel were, if we make transformation more actionable, more achievable,

[00:30:29] then everyone can see their butterfly and not feel stuck. Also, we'll never know what we're truly capable of until we try. And the one I think has card potential. You don't find your path. You build it. And finally, if I have seen further than others, it is by standing on the shoulder of giants.

[00:30:59] And that one's from Sir Isaac Newton. Here are three episode takeaways. One, most of us do not have a linear path. And setting an expectation that life should be like that can set us up for denial of agency in our own life. Two, transformation is personal to each of us. We get to define it for ourselves.

[00:31:28] It's both empowering and terrifying. And we need to take ownership. Three, fear is ever present in our lives and a normal part of it. It wants to keep us small. And if we wait until we're not afraid to do X, then we can miss becoming more confident when we actually put those things into practice.

[00:31:55] Our next episode will feature our guest, Bridget Panetta, advocate and ambassador for media.com. She'll bring real life experience and insights into social justice leadership. She's been instituting vital strategies for overcoming adversities having to do with misuse of power in the Australian government. There is much we can learn from her resilience and acceptance.

[00:32:24] Please join us again and talk to you soon. Bye.