214. Daring to Thrive: Lessons on Breaking Chains and Reimagining Potential with Dima Ghawi

[00:00:05] Welcome to episode 214 of Girl, Take the Lead, where each week we explore womanhood and leadership. And I'm your host, Yolanda Canny. Dima Ghawi, Gen X, joined us to share her journey so that others across the globe can access untapped potential, empower themselves to shatter limitations, and become purpose-driven leaders.

[00:00:31] Her own journey is one of escaping confinement, crossing continents, and transforming her life's purpose. She's a keynote speaker, does workshops, and executive coaching. And she'll share her unique leadership transformation journey so that we can activate our own potential and grow into that leadership.

[00:00:57] Some of the topics we covered were her book, Shattering Vases, Challenging the Norm, Education as a Way to Shatter Vases, Healing and Rising Above, and Following Our Feelings and Our Heart.

[00:01:18] As you listen, try to think about what your vases might be. Those are the expectations that others have of you that need shattering. In our last episode, we unpacked trauma and crisis with Dr. Kate Flynn, which can get in the way of living our life with intention.

[00:01:43] Dima gives us an inspiring example of overcoming trauma and crisis with courage. She is truly living her life with intention. Enjoy. And here you go. So Dima, welcome to Girl Take the Lead. We're excited to have you with us. And, you know, as we were discussing, our stories overlap a little bit. So I can't wait for our listeners to hear about yours and your book and everything that's going on.

[00:02:13] So welcome. Thank you, Yolanda. I'm so excited to be here. Yeah, great. And maybe we can start if you would introduce yourself to our listeners and tell them a little bit about yourself and about your book. That would be great. Sure. I always introduce myself by saying I am Middle Eastern in my genes, American in my heart, and a global citizen in my spirit. And that summarizes everything about me.

[00:02:39] I was born in Turkey, raised in Jordan in the Middle East, and I moved to the US 29 years ago. But my story starts when I was five years old. I was playing with my grandmother in her kitchen. And my grandmother was so much fun. She always had fun, different new games and fun things. But that one day, she wasn't fun. She had a glass vase. She held it and she said, do you see this perfect glass vase?

[00:03:08] A girl is just like it. If it gets cracked for any reason, you can never fix it. You can never glue it back. And then she said, no one would want it. Who would want a cracked vase? And then she said, that's the one we throw in the trash. What she was trying to teach me early on as a five year old, that I need to be perfect. I have to worry about how I am being perceived by others.

[00:03:35] If I make a mistake, or if I'm different, then I'm not going to be accepted and I would be thrown in the trash. So, so that's where my stop, my story started. That's where the whole journey started. And your book, the title of it and your, I mean, that was just so, and some of the chapter names are terrific as well.

[00:03:59] But talk a little bit about the book, because I think, I think our listeners can really relate to the perfectionism of, you know, families trying to keep us perfect. But I think your, your journey in this book is just amazing. Thank you. I appreciate all the wonderful compliments. I had amazing team of creative editors that helped me with this. So that's why every word and every title was so intentional.

[00:04:29] So the book is my journey of starting as a young woman, worried about the community and how I am being perceived, following, obeying, as well as getting married so young. I got engaged when I was 19 and we moved together to San Diego, California, when I was 20. And that was, I was living everything that was expected of me.

[00:04:56] But the problem was that I felt that I was getting into deep depression. I was feeling unhappy, lost, lonely. That marriage didn't turn out to be good. It wasn't healthy at all, but I didn't know what to do. And I knew if I would consider anything other than staying, that would be considered a crack in the vase and that would not be accepted by my family and my community. So I stayed in that marriage.

[00:05:26] But then I, my depression just kept getting worse and worse and worse. And one day I woke up too depressed to even get out of bed. And I just kept staring at the ceiling. By the end of the day, I decided to call my mom in Jordan. And I, which by the way, was not allowed in the middle of the week. I only was allowed to talk to her on a Saturday for about 15 to 20 minutes. That's, that was it. So I did break the rules.

[00:05:53] I called my mom dialed to speak to my mom and I couldn't get her. And I couldn't get my uncle who I love. I couldn't get my best friend. I just needed somebody to tell me how to live my life. And there was nobody that I was able to get in touch with. At that time, I felt it was the lowest moment in my life because I was on the floor crying, just praying for guidance.

[00:06:16] And I didn't realize there was a divine purpose in all of that, that I was supposed to learn early on in my life to listen to my internal voice, to listen to myself. Because I knew what I, the type of life that I wanted. I was just afraid. So by the end of the day, that was the message I got that maybe I have a choice.

[00:06:40] Maybe I have a choice to continue to keep my glass vase perfect and follow and do what everybody else is expecting of me. And the worst part is to pass it to the next generation and then expect the same thing from them. Or maybe I have a choice to shatter all of these expectations and, and I'm going to say the unfair expectations and create a different life. So I ended up, it took a while.

[00:07:06] I ended up escaping and starting a brand new life. That escape was considered a crack in the vase. And my community in Jordan disowned me and my father decided that I don't deserve to live. And he has been threatening my life since 2001. So, so that's the consequences that, that many of us were afraid of taking risks. We're afraid of challenging the norm.

[00:07:35] We're afraid of believing in ourselves because of the consequences. Yes, mine have been horrible with related to my dad and how, how he reacted to all of this. But we all have a vase and a challenge that we're living with. The more I discovered who I am and started focusing on education, because we have a phrase in Arabic that translates to, well, it is knowledge is light and ignorance is darkness.

[00:08:04] So it's bringing light, bringing knowledge. So I focus so much on education, on building myself up, surrounding myself with people that helped me to, to, to grow and believed in me. And that's how the journey started, at least for me, for my leadership discovery, my self worth discovery. And I realized after many, many years that I wanted to give back to other people. I want to share with them the story.

[00:08:33] I want to help them realize that even if they have a broken base, they're beautiful. There's beauty in the imperfection. They're great to the way they are. And maybe there is a purpose behind all of that. Just like with my life, there is a purpose to it. Yeah. Well, I wonder, you know, at some point, did you look at kind of challenging and questioning the norm?

[00:09:02] Mm. Um, and it, you know, you were courageous and brave in doing that, especially what was at stake for you. And when you see other women, why do you think it's so important for us all to kind of challenge the norm that way? Um, I believe it's part of human evolution.

[00:09:23] If we don't challenge the norm, we're just going to keep passing forward the old negative programming to the future generation and expecting the same thing from them. There is, there are funny norms that we still need to question. So for example, why do we have candles on a birthday cake? Why do we shake hands in one country and then bow in another country? So these are norms that have been passed and we do them. We don't think about them.

[00:09:52] It is how it has always been. And it's fun to just laugh about them and maybe learn about the history where they came from. The same thing with other areas in our lives. Uh, maybe they're not funny, but social, social, uh, norms related to how women have been treated or underrepresented groups. Many times we don't think about it. We don't, we don't challenge it. And we just expect that we have to act this way.

[00:10:21] We don't want to break the vase, even though it's already broken, it's not serving anybody. Uh, but the challenge, especially with women related to when, when I talk about the norms that have been suppressing women, we end up becoming the, uh, defenders of these norms. So you would find a mom wanting to protect the daughter or a grandmother wanting to protect her granddaughter.

[00:10:45] And they're passing to them these, um, chains and, and teaching them to live with, with these chains, just like what my grandmother did. So that's why it's so important to question everything. Um, and that's what happened to me. My depression was the best gift that I got because that's when I started to question everything, question, even the religion, question the politics, question my parents, question everything.

[00:11:14] And that's when I, what the things that I brought into my life is based on what I believed is the right thing. It is the thing that's surrounded with kindness, surrounded with love, surrounded with opportunities for growth, surrounded with that. It makes sense to me. And that's how, what I brought to my life.

[00:11:37] So you mentioned this a little bit, but do you think we all have phases that we, we need to shatter? I, it sounds like we do like some of that just gets right under the radar. We don't really notice some of the beliefs and constructs we've, we've made in our life, how things have been passed along to us.

[00:12:00] Um, so do you, do you see that in, in women now, whenever, wherever you are, like you, can you almost see their base? Wow. Um, I love this question.

[00:12:11] If we go back to the basic of what is a vase, the vase is the expectation that we have, that we need to be perfect, that we cannot have our own identity and we need to live a life that is expected of us and mask our own beautiful identity and thinking that there's something wrong with us if we are different. So that is what the vase is.

[00:12:37] So when I say it this way, I hope you and our, our listeners would realize that this is affecting every single person around the world. And yes, it's specifically affects women, but with my work, I realize it affects people from all kinds of genders. We all have certain expectations that we need to, that we're living with many times. It's easy to just accept it the way it is and just say, you know, this is how everybody else is living.

[00:13:07] I may as well just not challenge the norm because who would want to deal with the consequences. But at the same time, when we challenge them, it creates a ripple effect. Other people can learn from our example and we get to live a better life as well. So the answer is yes, we all have one of these phases. And I believe it's as if it's part of our purpose as humans. Part of the purpose is to challenge this, challenge the norm, challenge the vases.

[00:13:36] And the best part is to grow beyond the shard. So we don't want to just shatter and be broken and, you know, not, not, not know how to live our life. It is the rebuilding that is the purpose. Yeah. Well, what are your thoughts on how we rise above our bases? I mean, I think you, you and I share a common start strategy and that we used education as one way.

[00:14:05] Um, but I was also thinking when you were talking that I could remember when I was about seven years old, my parents sent me to sleep away camp for the first time. Um, and there were these magnificent women who were, you know, counselors and they were strong. And I went, Oh my goodness, these women are amazing.

[00:14:33] And I can remember that that sort of put me on a path of, you know, there's different kinds of women who lead and you can be strong and beautiful and brilliant. And, and you don't have to be small in your thinking, but, but what are some other strategies that you see or that you've seen with that help? Oh my goodness.

[00:15:00] I think, I think you answered a big part of the question. It is not to stay small and to realize that we have the power to continue to rise and also to observe other people that we aspire to be like them. Just like with your example, when you mentioned you saw these women and you're like, wow, women can be that. I remember when I was, I think 14 years old, we had a gathering, a big gathering.

[00:15:26] We invited everybody in the community and my uncle brought his manager and his manager was a woman and she was in leadership and she was educated. And I was looking at all the other women, they were sitting and cooking or cooking and cleaning and gossiping while she was this specific woman was speaking with men about politics and the economy. And I'm not joking. And I was staring at her as if she, she, she's an alien.

[00:15:54] It's something I've never seen. And I, I, maybe it is, I wasn't aware of it, but maybe unconsciously my brain was like, I want to be just like her. Yeah. But that was not the path that I was supposed to live. I'm not living the life I was born into. I w I'm living a whole different life because of these little moments that showed up. Yeah. So that when, when I think about rising beyond the shard is first thing is to have a vision.

[00:16:22] And when we talk about being intentional about our life, it has to start with a vision, even if it is not realistic, even if it is scary, it is just to keep imagining it, having this vision and keep playing it in our head. So one, one example, I, I really, really wanted to be the first educated woman in my family. And it was difficult because my English wasn't good.

[00:16:48] I didn't have enough money to cover the, the expenses related to, to my college. But what I did a lot was envision myself on my graduation day, wearing the cat graduation cap and gown. And every time I, I envisioned that somehow it gave me the motivation to work a little harder, to challenge myself, to speak English more, to maybe save money on one area and to, to make sure I am spending it on my education.

[00:17:16] So when we're talking about rising, this is part of not allowing myself to stay small by having this amazing vision, even if it is, if it is terrifying and maybe it doesn't, it doesn't seem realistic, but to keep dreaming of it over and over and over. And that helps us to make it a reality and surrounding ourselves with people that believe in us.

[00:17:39] There's a lot of people out there that may try to keep us small, that may try to, um, rob us out of our dream and our vision. So that's why we need to be so selective of who we're surrounding ourselves with, like very selective. I'm not saying be mean to the people that are not supportive, but maybe we just don't make time for them. Maybe we, we, we choose to stay home and watch a movie instead of going out with these people.

[00:18:08] And a big part of my journey, and I haven't talked a lot about it yet. That's going to be part of book number two. It is the healing. So to rise beyond the shards, we need to realize that what we had to experience to get to a point to break the vase is significant. It is painful. Some of us, maybe some, something inside of us got broken.

[00:18:32] So what do we need to do to heal and to be intentional in making that a priority? This is important for me because I would not want to deal with anything related to healing after my escape. And after I started dealing with death threats, I blocked it all, all. And I said, I'm just going to focus on my education. I'm going to focus on work. I was working full time, going to school full time, and I, I, I blocked it.

[00:19:02] And I didn't give myself time to really feel the, the pain and the sadness and the anger, and to just scream out of this, out of all of these feelings. I didn't do any of that. I blocked it all out. And then years later, I ended up being very, very sick. Because our body knows, our body can, can feel these things. And in order for us to rise, we need to let go of the chains that are pushing us down.

[00:19:31] And a big part of these chains are the sadness, the sorrow, the memories, the things that have been unfair. And maybe we need to work on that to, to cut these chains and to forgive, starting by forgiving ourselves in order to continue to rise. So these are the, some of the things, but also part of all of that is to watch our self-talk. What are we telling ourselves every single day?

[00:20:00] Are we telling ourselves I'm broken or are we telling ourselves, I have the power to rebuild myself to something more beautiful than I've ever imagined? Mm-hmm. That sounds so great. Well, especially this time of year, right? We're all kind of thinking about, you know, what we did in 2024 and what we're intending to go into for 2025.

[00:20:27] And I think you're giving our listeners a terrific path on how to move forward, move forward with that grace and the dignity and the desire that they have in, for everything in 2025 and beyond.

[00:20:55] Is there, I mean, I think we've covered a lot of what we wanted to, is there anything else there though, that you want to pass along before we end our episode? Yeah, of course I do. I want, I want to tell everybody that's listening, follow your feelings. We know what we want.

[00:21:19] We may block it because we're afraid of how, how we're being perceived, but our soul, our heart knows. So listen to your heart. It could be through journaling. It could be through taking long walks. It could be through driving and not putting any music and just listening to your thoughts, which is so important.

[00:21:39] And during this time of the year, everybody, including myself, we end up putting all these humongous goals that are, it's sometimes it's impossible for you, for any human to achieve. So instead of just putting these goals, simplify it, think about maybe group them into three main areas. One of them is what do you want to achieve related to your energy? What are you going to do to increase your energy?

[00:22:08] Maybe that is through working out. Maybe that is through healing. Maybe that is through laughter and playfulness and creativity. The other area is connection. Right now, there's so much more loneliness in the U.S. and I'm guessing around the world than ever. So what are we doing to connect to for our loving relationships with our family through volunteering, through helping other people on their journey?

[00:22:34] And the third one is through investments, investments, your money, your income, focusing on those. So maybe as we're starting the year, think about these three areas and think about how do you feel about these three areas and use your feeling to motivate you to achieve them. Oh, that's great. That was, you know, when you say feeling, I kind of think of intuition and, you know, what we're trying to tell ourselves. So those are great, great ideas.

[00:23:04] I think those are very helpful. So how can our listeners and viewers find you and get your book? I have a website. It's my name, dmagawi.com. So d-i-m-a-g-h-a-w-i.com. And I also have a website for breaking vases, my book. So you can go and there's pictures like behind the scenes and excerpts and all kinds of stuff there.

[00:23:33] Also, there's a section for book clubs. And if you are interested in getting the book, it is on Amazon. It's on Apple. It's on Audible as well, if you want to hear me reading the book as well. So it's available online. And I would love to connect. I would love to hear people's stories and learn about their vases and what they're trying to do to shatter them. And you are available for coaching too, right? And working with organizations if they want to reach out to you.

[00:24:01] Because I know you have a background with IBM and you understand corporate life. So people can contact you for that kind of coaching as well, right? Yes. I love my coaching business. I do coaching and also training. I take a lot of the messages related to perfection and the vase and apply it to leadership. Because when we have more leaders that are self-aware, that are okay not to be perfect,

[00:24:28] that's when they're going to be able to relate more to their teams and inspire them. So yes, I take the messages from the vase and I apply it into coaching and into leadership in general. So, well, when you say, you know, like, become aware and be okay with the broken parts of us. I'm like, oh, that is totally what this podcast is about.

[00:24:52] You know, because I think so many times people hide and don't want to have those things visible. So they become kind of plastic in how they are. And like, I'm all for breaking all that stuff and putting it all behind us so that we can move forward and be different, be authentic in who we are. And allowing other people as well to break their vase and to be authentic.

[00:25:22] So the less we judge others, the more we're creating a space for everybody to have a better life. I love it. So Deema, what would you tell your 20 something self today? That girl that was married at that time, right? You were married then. Yeah, I was married when I was 20. I would tell her that things will get really, really, really, really bad.

[00:25:50] But they're going to eventually get better. So when she's at the lowest moment in her life to cry, to express her sadness, but to know that things will get better. And things will get better through education to increase awareness. And by the way, education doesn't have to be formal college education.

[00:26:11] It is more self-awareness, more knowledge, to increase knowledge, to surround herself with the right people, to listen to her intuition, to follow her feelings and to be playful. And that's the thing I know I missed out a lot in my life is to play and to enjoy life in the moment. And these are the ingredients that we all need to do in order to continue to rise. Love it. Love it.

[00:26:40] So did you get a chance to go to our store and take a look at some of our cards? Did any of them speak to you? I'm curious about which one you thought I selected. Yes. I thought you would select the butterfly with brave wings she flies. Oh, wow. Yes. The brave butterfly. You're you're. Wow. You knew me so well before the interview. Yes. I love the brave butterfly. So beautiful.

[00:27:07] Well, and you're definitely that I just got to chill on that. But you are definitely a woman who is brave and courageous. And I'm so delighted that we got the chance and very honored to have this time with you to hear your story and to inspire other people. I mean, that's it brings joy to us. Right. I mean, it's just important. Thank you.

[00:27:36] I'm so grateful for the opportunity and get to know a little more about you as well, because it sounds like you have an amazing story and you're very inspiring. Oh, thank you. All right. Thank you, listeners, and we'll talk to you soon. Bye. Thank you for listening today. And we sure hope you enjoyed this episode. If you did, please leave a comment wherever you listen to your podcasts. Tell a friend about us.

[00:28:05] Join our public Facebook group, girl, take the lead or visit our website. Girl, take the lead pod.com. We also have a YouTube channel where your subscription would be appreciated. Once you're on YouTube search at girl, take the lead. And we've recently expanded to YouTube music where you can find a video of this episode. And you can also find a video on Spotify. Here are three episode takeaways. One.

[00:28:35] We all have broken bases and there's beauty in the imperfection with purpose to it. A base is the expectation that we live our life perfectly and thinking something is wrong with us. If we think differently. Two.

[00:28:55] If we don't challenge the norm, we'll just pass along the same ways of being or chains and miss opportunities for growth. When we challenge, we can shatter our base and rebuild ourselves. Three. We have the power to rise above and not stay small. We need to let go of the chains.

[00:29:21] We can start with a vision and keep playing in, in our heads to help make it a reality. It's important to select the people we surround ourselves and watch the self-talk. So it's intentional and we'll heal. As you know, we've been asking our guests to go to our card or gift store at girl, take the lead pod.com slash shop and tell us what items spoke most to them.

[00:29:51] And Dima picked the butterfly with courageous wings. She flies. So check out Dima's choice and see our newest birthday and Valentine cards. Our next episode will cover a bit more about intention. It's also our third year anniversary, but there's so much we can cover about intention. And I've gotten the new book by Mel Robbins.

[00:30:21] The let them theory. So I will be talking about that book in our next episode. So join us again. Thank you for being here and talk to you soon. Bye. Bye.