212. Understanding Ourselves Through Talk: A Conversation with Dr. Amanda Kenderes

[00:00:07] Welcome to episode 212 of Girl, Take the Lead, where each week we explore womanhood and leadership. And I'm your host, Yolanda Canny. Dr. Amanda Kenderes, author of the book, Talk Types, How What We Say Reveals Who We Are, joins us to talk about her talk type model. Also joining and giving generational perspectives are daughters, Kiki, the Gen Zer, and Emma, the millennial.

[00:00:35] Amanda is a professor of Interdisciplinary Studies at Humphreys University. She holds a PhD in Social Science and Comparative Education from the Graduate School of Education and Information Studies at UCLA. She grew up in North and South America, Asia, Africa, and Europe. Topics we covered included her talk type model, benefits of knowing your talk type,

[00:01:05] how listening relates to talking, how listening relates to talking, you know, Kiki and Emma identify their talk type, and talk types in families and teams. As you listen, try to figure out what talk type you are, and what the talk types are of those closest around you. And if there's someone you just don't seem to gel with, what talk type do you think they are?

[00:01:35] In our last episode, we talked about goals, intentions, and resolutions, and joy. Understanding talk types might help us all connect with others in what happens to be on our intention list. And there's one other thing.

[00:01:52] I think we can be in those moments of joy when we're doing those things that are aligned with our talk type. Just think about it as you listen to this episode. Enjoy. And here you go.

[00:02:07] Well, welcome, Amanda.

[00:02:09] Thank you. So glad to be here.

[00:02:12] So glad to have you back.

[00:02:13] And Kiki, do you want to just introduce yourself real quick?

[00:02:17] So hey guys, Kiki here.

[00:02:19] Yolanda's Gen Z daughter.

[00:02:22] I'm the resident millennial.

[00:02:25] I am currently in between sending out contracts for end of year for a Q4.

[00:02:34] I work in finance.

[00:02:37] Thanks for joining, honey.

[00:02:39] I know that you guys adjusted your schedules.

[00:02:43] Amanda, go ahead.

[00:02:45] We'd love to learn more about you.

[00:02:47] Perfect. Yeah.

[00:02:49] So my name is Amanda Kenderes.

[00:02:52] And I'm a professor and, gosh, communication expert is the new label people are putting on me.

[00:03:01] But it's not new to me.

[00:03:02] It's been something I've been doing for a long time.

[00:03:07] And, gosh, an introduction.

[00:03:09] It's hard to keep it short.

[00:03:11] I was an international kid raised on five continents.

[00:03:18] And that's, you know, I had so many questions about communication growing up.

[00:03:22] And that was the backdrop, this international upbringing that allowed me to kind of test things out and answer questions.

[00:03:30] So, yeah, I think that's enough to get us started.

[00:03:33] But good to be here.

[00:03:35] Thanks, Amanda.

[00:03:37] Yeah.

[00:03:38] Yeah.

[00:03:38] Yeah.

[00:03:38] Let's start talking about your book.

[00:03:40] Yeah.

[00:03:40] Because I know I've had a chance to read it.

[00:03:43] And I know our listeners are going to really find it interesting.

[00:03:47] Talk types.

[00:03:48] How what we say reveals who we are.

[00:03:52] And if you could tell us why you wrote it.

[00:03:55] Yeah.

[00:03:56] So this is the culmination of, gosh, some 30 years of work.

[00:04:03] Like I tell my students, you know, some questions we can answer in a few seconds.

[00:04:10] Like, you know, what shoes I'm going to put on, what I'm going to eat for breakfast.

[00:04:14] Some questions take a few minutes, a few months maybe.

[00:04:19] But these are questions that took years to answer.

[00:04:23] And I was stubborn enough to think that I could actually answer them.

[00:04:27] It started in elementary school.

[00:04:29] I was living in Greece at the time.

[00:04:32] And because our family moved every three years, embassy family,

[00:04:40] I knew that I had to connect quickly because we're going to be moving on, you know,

[00:04:44] soon again.

[00:04:46] So I tried to connect my way.

[00:04:49] I like deep talks.

[00:04:51] And I figured let's just skip the small talk and dive right in.

[00:04:56] But that didn't go over very well most of the time with most people.

[00:05:03] And so it just led to a whole series of questions.

[00:05:07] And even from, you know, the playground in elementary school through middle school, high school,

[00:05:13] and so on, I was, I did a lot of observing.

[00:05:17] And I had questions like, you know, why is it that with some people we can connect quickly

[00:05:25] and easily and just lose track of time?

[00:05:29] You know, an hour could go by.

[00:05:32] And then with other people, we have to work to think of things to say.

[00:05:37] Why is it we have different senses of humor?

[00:05:40] Why do we have different tastes in movies, books, podcasts?

[00:05:47] I had, you know, most people say, well, oh, we just, we have different personalities and

[00:05:52] chalk it up to that and move on.

[00:05:54] But that wasn't good enough for me.

[00:05:56] I figured, well, there's got to be a reason.

[00:05:59] What is it about our different personalities?

[00:06:02] And so finally, now at 44, actually, I was 43 when I published it.

[00:06:12] I got the answers out and I'm really excited to share them.

[00:06:16] Yeah.

[00:06:17] Well, the book is amazing.

[00:06:18] You've got exercises in there, such provocative questions, ways to bring in the reader.

[00:06:24] I just really enjoyed it.

[00:06:26] And tell us about the talk type model and the three categories.

[00:06:36] Yeah.

[00:06:36] So this is the really cool thing that I discovered around the world.

[00:06:44] There are really only three reasons that people talk.

[00:06:49] Everything is reducible to these three reasons, fundamental reasons.

[00:06:55] And we, we have, well, let me, let me share the big framework first, and then we'll go to

[00:07:02] specific.

[00:07:02] There are two main reasons that we talk.

[00:07:06] We talk to share our experiences.

[00:07:09] Or we talk to share our understanding.

[00:07:13] Okay.

[00:07:14] But our understanding can be objective or subjective.

[00:07:19] An objective understanding, it's factual.

[00:07:22] Oh, it's, it's hotter than usual today.

[00:07:26] Well, we could, we could verify that with numbers, look at the data history and see that that's actually

[00:07:30] a fact.

[00:07:31] Objectively, that's a fact.

[00:07:32] Um, and then there's the subjective understanding.

[00:07:36] That's the deep, sometimes vulnerable meaning making stuff.

[00:07:40] Like, you know, I had a really difficult childhood.

[00:07:46] Or I had a really wonderful childhood.

[00:07:50] Either way, it's my subjective understanding.

[00:07:54] And nobody from the outside can say, no, that's not true.

[00:07:58] Um, that's my truth.

[00:08:01] So because of that, we end up with three reasons for talking.

[00:08:07] We've got, we've got, um, two kinds of understanding.

[00:08:12] And sharing our experiences.

[00:08:15] That's three kinds of talk.

[00:08:16] Um, three reasons for talking.

[00:08:18] And then it shows up as three kinds of talk.

[00:08:20] So in short, we got A, B, and C.

[00:08:24] And A is factual talk.

[00:08:26] The objective understanding bit.

[00:08:28] B is sharing our experiences.

[00:08:31] It's relating.

[00:08:32] And C is our deep understanding.

[00:08:36] So A, B, and C, um, factual talk, relating, and meaning making.

[00:08:42] And, um, and when we rank, you know, so to answer our question, my questions, um, and we, we may,

[00:08:51] many of us probably have them.

[00:08:53] Um, you know, why is it that some of us can connect quickly and some of us, it takes work.

[00:08:58] It's because we don't like these three reasons for talking the same.

[00:09:05] Some, for some, we, we rank them differently.

[00:09:08] Some of us like C best, B second best, and A last.

[00:09:13] Some of us like A first.

[00:09:15] And depending on how closely we are aligned with each other, we'll predict, um, how easily

[00:09:21] it will be to connect with each other.

[00:09:23] And the three kinds of talk, the three categories, um, of talk end up when you rank them, you get

[00:09:30] six talk types.

[00:09:32] That's the short of it.

[00:09:33] Six talk types.

[00:09:34] Everyone across the planet, um, is one of them.

[00:09:38] Including everyone here.

[00:09:42] Well, I think, um, I want to make sure that, that our listeners are able to grasp some of

[00:09:49] this.

[00:09:50] You're not saying that we're only one type.

[00:09:52] You're just saying that we kind of rank them a little bit differently.

[00:09:56] It's not to say that if you're really into finding meaning that you're not informing it's.

[00:10:02] You know, you kind of, you, you blend them.

[00:10:05] Is that, do I have that right?

[00:10:07] We do.

[00:10:08] So I like to think of them as a home base.

[00:10:11] Um, and I also like to distinguish between our preferences and our practices.

[00:10:17] So if, if you know anything about other personality models like Myers-Briggs, Enneagram, these kinds

[00:10:23] of things, um, there's, there's some overlap and some similarities to the kind of philosophy

[00:10:30] behind it.

[00:10:31] Um, I see, and I have seen that people pretty much stick to their home base.

[00:10:39] Um, my kids look like they already have a talk type, um, you know, from what I can tell, um,

[00:10:46] even at this age and over time, I haven't seen people change their talk type, their home base

[00:10:52] stays the same.

[00:10:53] That's their set of preferences.

[00:10:55] But if we look at practices, well, I mean, we, we can do anything.

[00:11:00] I mean, we can dial up or dial down any of these letters.

[00:11:04] Um, and that's, that's good.

[00:11:06] We, we want to be able to do that.

[00:11:08] And that allows us to interact in different, um, contexts and conversations and in any way

[00:11:14] that we, that we want.

[00:11:16] So, um, so yes, I think we do have a home base.

[00:11:19] That's our set of, of preferences, but our, our practices can, can vary.

[00:11:26] And why do you think it's important to know our types like that?

[00:11:29] Oh gosh.

[00:11:31] Uh, because communication is how we interface with the world and everyone around us, including

[00:11:40] ourselves.

[00:11:44] Talk is the medium by which we do everything.

[00:11:48] Even think we, we use words a lot of the time.

[00:11:53] Sometimes we don't, sometimes we just, we have a feeling.

[00:11:57] Um, but the overwhelming majority of the time as, as communicators, we, we use language and

[00:12:06] language can be grouped into these three categories.

[00:12:09] So in knowing them, then we have, um, it empowers us.

[00:12:15] It empowers us to connect with people better, empowers us to make better decisions.

[00:12:20] Um, we don't have to go on six first dates with the same person.

[00:12:23] We can, we know after one that, no, not what I'm looking for because we can decide, you know,

[00:12:29] okay, I'm an AB and I want to be with a BA or a BC that's, that's, you know, communicationally,

[00:12:36] I, you know, I've done my homework and I, that's, that's really who I connect with best.

[00:12:40] Okay, great.

[00:12:41] Um, that it helps it, you know, Ray Dalio is famous for saying, and lots of other people

[00:12:48] before him have no doubt said this, but the quality of our life is reducible to the quality

[00:12:55] of our decisions.

[00:12:56] And so anything that we can use to make better decisions is worth our time.

[00:13:03] Mm-hmm.

[00:13:05] I also had the sense that if I understood and could recognize where someone else was coming

[00:13:12] from, that I could have more empathy or like identify and say, oh, they're really into informing

[00:13:22] right now.

[00:13:24] Oh my goodness.

[00:13:25] That's such a good way to put it, Yolanda.

[00:13:26] Um, we are able to extend empathy, compassion, um, to others who are different than us.

[00:13:36] And on the flip side, we don't take things personally like, oh, okay.

[00:13:42] You know, someone did a fact check on me and a is my, my third, for example.

[00:13:48] Oh, and instead of getting offended, you know, they know what I'm trying to say.

[00:13:52] Well, we have different goals when we think about how, um, there are really only two ultimate

[00:14:04] reasons for talking because A and C are reducible.

[00:14:08] They're, they're, they're, um, they want to understand, right?

[00:14:12] And then B's want to share their experiences.

[00:14:15] Um, this is why we talk and this is why we listen too.

[00:14:21] So if you are talking in A or C, then you want to share your understanding.

[00:14:27] If you're listening and you're an A or a C, you're trying, you're listening for understanding.

[00:14:35] So understanding is the motivation for B's understanding is not the motivation.

[00:14:42] Experiencing, sharing the experience, getting a reaction.

[00:14:45] Um, the reason why do we do that to be heard it's to be heard.

[00:14:50] We want to witness.

[00:14:52] Um, in fact, we hear people say all the time, you know, if somebody interrupts, um, a relator,

[00:14:59] Oh, you know, you're not hearing me.

[00:15:03] And often an A or C will say, you don't understand.

[00:15:07] Often, often these kinds of complaints are born out of the actual motivation underlying our talk.

[00:15:15] And, um, and so let's say you have a talk type, um, that doesn't have a, like a C, C B or BC.

[00:15:25] And you're talking to an A dominant and they're just fact-checking everything you're saying.

[00:15:30] And that's just getting really annoying.

[00:15:33] And you're like, you know what I mean?

[00:15:36] Let's just stop.

[00:15:37] Um, well, for a, for a BC or a CB, uh, especially for a, for a B dominant understanding isn't the point,

[00:15:51] but the other person's listening because they're trying to understand that's their point.

[00:15:56] So they're, they're listening for the facts of your conversation and, and you're talking,

[00:16:04] not for the facts you're talking to, to relate and share, um, an experience.

[00:16:09] And, and so it just doesn't add up.

[00:16:12] Um, now the opposite is true too.

[00:16:17] Uh, A's and C's usually don't mind being interrupted if you're interrupting because,

[00:16:22] you know, you want clarification for something.

[00:16:24] Oh, you're, you want to understand better.

[00:16:26] You don't understand something.

[00:16:27] Great.

[00:16:28] Let me clear that up for you because now our, our, our motivations are working together.

[00:16:34] They're not antithetical to one another.

[00:16:36] If I interrupt a B, well, that runs completely contrary to being heard.

[00:16:41] I'm stopping the being heard from happening.

[00:16:44] So yeah, when we, when we start to see this, we absolutely, um, stop taking things personally

[00:16:52] to the extent that we did before.

[00:16:53] It's so empowering.

[00:16:54] Hmm.

[00:16:56] And what I think is, um, you said before that you could see in your preschool or children,

[00:17:04] certain talk types already emerging.

[00:17:06] So it seems like in a family, here we are three women from one family, each of us could

[00:17:13] have different talk types.

[00:17:15] Oh yeah.

[00:17:16] Uh, and no doubt, um, you know, you do, or at least, at least two, you know, two different

[00:17:24] kinds, if not three.

[00:17:25] Yeah.

[00:17:26] Most likely it's not that common for people in the same family to have, um, you know, all

[00:17:32] the same talk.

[00:17:33] It's just not that common.

[00:17:35] Interesting.

[00:17:36] So, so girls, I, at first, when I talked to Amanda about doing the episode, I thought

[00:17:43] for sure I was an informer relater.

[00:17:49] And then I realized, I don't know, but I'm pretty much into meaning and, um, maybe it's

[00:18:02] the meaning maker relater that I tend to be.

[00:18:09] And, um, she asked me some quick questions.

[00:18:12] She asked me, do I ask you guys how things went on kind of like a regular basis?

[00:18:23] Do you think I do?

[00:18:25] Yeah.

[00:18:26] But I think that's like, you know, you're curious, you know, as my mom, how things went

[00:18:32] or how I'm doing.

[00:18:33] So yeah, it kind of has always made sense to me, but yeah.

[00:18:38] And do you guys think that I'm a meaning maker?

[00:18:44] Yes, definitely.

[00:18:46] I mean, like, cause I think when, whenever we have, we like trouble, we're, we're like

[00:18:50] troubleshooting problems.

[00:18:51] It's always like, you know, like let's deconstruct the meaning.

[00:18:55] Like, let's take it back.

[00:18:57] Like, I think, you know, and just kind of like, let's think of this, think about the big picture.

[00:19:01] So I think definitely I would, I would say so.

[00:19:05] Okay.

[00:19:05] How about you guys?

[00:19:06] What do you think you might be?

[00:19:08] And Amanda can help you ask you some questions.

[00:19:10] Like she did me like, Oh, do you ask them about how the, how the date went?

[00:19:15] Like, like I try and hold off from waiting.

[00:19:18] That way to do it the next day.

[00:19:21] Yeah.

[00:19:21] And, and I will add too, as you're thinking about it, that it's important to remember that

[00:19:29] our home base doesn't have to be a reflection of, again, it's a preference practices discussion.

[00:19:38] I might be right-handed, but I'm not writing all the time.

[00:19:43] I'm still right-handed, even when I'm not writing.

[00:19:48] So whatever your talk type, if you want to think maybe in terms of sitting, walking, running

[00:19:56] with the three categories we've all been on, on long flights.

[00:20:00] And, um, you know, if we had to do any of those three things for eight hours, I think all of

[00:20:07] us would agree, we'd rather be sitting for eight hours.

[00:20:11] Now, um, even after sitting for a few hours, it does feel good up and it feels good to get

[00:20:18] up and stretch our legs.

[00:20:19] Um, so, so walking is a, is a relief to our sitting, but if we had to run for eight hours,

[00:20:26] I mean, we'd be exhausted.

[00:20:29] So if we think first about the one that's the least likely, we can kind of get it out the way,

[00:20:35] you know, which, which letter, which category don't you have, you know, which is the, the,

[00:20:40] the one that takes work for you, which is the running.

[00:20:44] And then from there we can figure out which is sitting, which is walking.

[00:20:47] I think that can be helpful.

[00:20:49] Um, and, and not to look at yourself, which one do I do all the time?

[00:20:53] I mean, I'm a CA, but I don't spend my time talking about growth and struggles and challenges

[00:20:59] and hopes and fears all the time.

[00:21:01] And, um, in fact, most of my day is, is, is spent in a, I am teaching this or, or, you

[00:21:09] know, talking about that, but there's always a C program running in the back of my mind.

[00:21:16] Um, yeah.

[00:21:18] With all your questions that you have.

[00:21:20] So I know then that C is dominant because my A sits at the service of my C and not the

[00:21:27] other way around.

[00:21:30] So key, what do you think you might be?

[00:21:33] So I don't think that I'm a, I don't, that requires running for me being very factual because

[00:21:41] sometimes at work, you know, you have to be a factual and I can do that, but I don't, I

[00:21:48] don't tend to love doing that all the time.

[00:21:51] I'd probably say my sitting is B and my walking is C maybe like, I think, and I guess this was

[00:21:58] a question I was going to ask.

[00:21:59] Cause I think with B, I definitely feel like I, I do try to like relate with people a lot

[00:22:03] and like share experiences or share perspectives.

[00:22:06] Um, but sometimes it's like, um, I'm too anxious about the situation or to, you know, some people

[00:22:15] aren't really open to having like a C kind of dialogue, you know?

[00:22:21] Um, but I would like to, you know, but I don't want to like scare them off by asking like,

[00:22:26] you know, do you think humans are inherently good or bad, you know?

[00:22:32] Right.

[00:22:33] Like things like that, you know, I'm not sure if you kind of like have seen that in your

[00:22:36] like experience to Amanda that like maybe something you want, but maybe the situation

[00:22:41] or your own like perceived like ideas of the results of that conversation, you know, may stop you.

[00:22:48] Oh, absolutely.

[00:22:49] And in fact, I would say that that's a characteristic that's common for many BCs.

[00:22:56] So I think you, you hit the nail on the head.

[00:22:59] Um, a lot of BCs, I've got some close BC friends myself.

[00:23:03] Um, and B is, is, you know, they're, they're sitting, it's, it's relaxing.

[00:23:09] It's rejuvenating.

[00:23:10] It's fun.

[00:23:11] It's light.

[00:23:12] Um, but they still need to, um, they still need their C.

[00:23:18] They need to get their C fix.

[00:23:19] Um, otherwise, uh, life feels a little bit off balance and ungrounded.

[00:23:24] And so it's really important for BCs to at least have that bestie or two that, um, that

[00:23:29] you can go there with.

[00:23:31] And, um, and for people who, and, you know, you may have that and that's wonderful.

[00:23:36] Um, but for, for anyone who doesn't, um, who is a BC, well, with the talk type model, then

[00:23:44] now, you know, okay, I need that.

[00:23:46] I had better intentionally find a way to, you know, to get that.

[00:23:51] Yeah.

[00:23:52] Great.

[00:23:53] Thank you.

[00:23:54] Yeah.

[00:23:54] How about you, Em?

[00:23:56] I'm kind of the opposite.

[00:23:57] I think A is my sitting.

[00:24:00] I can, I have, I have for like contact, Amanda, I have a background in like policy and law.

[00:24:05] Wow.

[00:24:05] And I currently, and I have like a master's degree in math-ish sort of field, like social sciences.

[00:24:12] So I'm like being factual is just very easy, easy peasy, lemon squeezy.

[00:24:17] I'm, I'm a negotiator at work.

[00:24:19] So like, I also am really analytical and strategic.

[00:24:23] Um, I think I'm not afraid to have like the deeper conversations.

[00:24:27] I think it's just something I don't have often.

[00:24:29] Cause like, I don't, I don't know.

[00:24:31] Like, I think especially like for my friends as of late, like we'll have deep conversations,

[00:24:37] but like try not to have too many.

[00:24:40] Cause like, I think sometimes we're just looking for the decompression from like work

[00:24:44] and like life, which like you're confronting the, the big problems like constantly.

[00:24:50] So I think maybe it's probably like an, like in order of like sitting, standing, running,

[00:24:57] like ACB, I think.

[00:25:00] ACB.

[00:25:01] Okay.

[00:25:02] Yeah.

[00:25:02] So B would be the least for you.

[00:25:05] Yeah.

[00:25:06] I would say, um, here comes that one, because you walk into a room and you light up your super

[00:25:16] social.

[00:25:17] You relate to everybody in the room.

[00:25:21] I don't know.

[00:25:22] Key, key shaking her head too.

[00:25:25] Um, I think you might be of a B before C, but I think my perception of it, it's, it's

[00:25:33] your truth.

[00:25:33] So don't listen to us if it doesn't sound right, but no, I think, I think maybe in that

[00:25:38] case, yeah, maybe it's like ABC.

[00:25:41] Yeah.

[00:25:41] I guess it might depend on like the environment you're into because I feel like, I guess in

[00:25:49] the conversations that we have, it's not very factual a lot of the time.

[00:25:52] Yeah.

[00:25:53] And I think too, like, I think for me, like when I think of like C topics, like I think

[00:25:59] of like vulnerable topics.

[00:26:02] I'm not vulnerable with a lot of people.

[00:26:03] Like it's just who I am.

[00:26:05] Like I can, I can talk to a wall.

[00:26:08] No problem.

[00:26:09] My, my mother-in-law thinks it's funny that I can just talk to a wall and hold a conversation.

[00:26:15] But I think it's more like, am I asking them like about like deep stuff or are they,

[00:26:21] am I answering questions that they've asked me about deep stuff and authentically?

[00:26:25] And I'm like, probably not.

[00:26:27] Yeah.

[00:26:28] Well, and that's, I mean, there's some, so much here.

[00:26:31] I mean, for, for starters, I think this is amazing.

[00:26:35] I love that you're both here because we can see, and we'll, we'll talk to Yolanda too.

[00:26:39] Um, but we can already see a difference in, in the talk types within a single family and

[00:26:46] the, the nurture is all the same, but it's the nature that's different.

[00:26:53] Um, you know, I, I assume, you know, the, um, that, um, you had some, some overlap in,

[00:27:00] in, um, uh, experiences growing up, you know, being from the same family, but you still end

[00:27:07] reminder.

[00:27:08] Um, the other thing I would add is it seems just off the cuff that maybe Emma, maybe they're

[00:27:14] right.

[00:27:14] Um, that B is your secondary.

[00:27:16] And I'll say this from the short time that I have, um, you know, known you, um, you said

[00:27:25] a comment that seemed to be pretty telling.

[00:27:28] You said, um, gosh, you know, I don't do the C, the meaning making the deep stuff that

[00:27:33] much because, um, we're, we're trying to, I'm trying to decompress from work, you know,

[00:27:39] and not add to it basically.

[00:27:42] Well, if, if C was something that was in your talk type, you would enjoy it.

[00:27:47] It wouldn't be work to you.

[00:27:49] It would actually be, um, energizing and it wouldn't be energy depleting.

[00:27:53] So that is an indicator right there that they may be right about you being an AB.

[00:27:58] No.

[00:27:59] Yeah.

[00:27:59] I think that's definitely accurate.

[00:28:02] I think too, um, just so interesting.

[00:28:05] If you think about it for your work, um, because the people around you on your teams, Emma

[00:28:12] works at Pinterest and Kiki's at discord that you must see it in teams, right?

[00:28:18] Amanda where, and you help them understand like how different talk types would relate

[00:28:25] to each other in a team environment.

[00:28:29] Yeah.

[00:28:30] Yeah.

[00:28:30] In teams and families, anywhere where people interact, which is everywhere.

[00:28:35] Um, even as we can see here within one family unit, um, people are so different.

[00:28:43] Now the good news is that there are only six talk types.

[00:28:46] So we're not talking about an infinite range here.

[00:28:49] Um, six it's easy enough for us to wrap our heads around.

[00:28:54] Um, the other thing is, and I'll cycle back to what Emma and Kiki said, um, is that, oh,

[00:28:59] well, Kiki said, well, you know, we don't do, um, when, when Emma and I talk, we don't

[00:29:04] really do a lot of aid together.

[00:29:06] Well, guess what?

[00:29:08] That makes sense.

[00:29:09] Um, in fact, we can use our talk type talk types to predict the kinds of connections

[00:29:15] and potential conflicts we may have.

[00:29:18] So let's just imagine if Kiki's a BC and Emma is an AB, what's the one letter they overlap

[00:29:26] in B.

[00:29:29] So that's probably where, where they'll spend the bulk of their time.

[00:29:33] Um, but if, if Kiki needs her C needs met, she's probably not going to lean in on Emma

[00:29:39] for that.

[00:29:40] You know, now they're sisters.

[00:29:41] So there may be some sister things that just have to happen, but generally Kiki will probably

[00:29:47] go to her C friends for that.

[00:29:48] And Emma will go to her A friends for the A stuff.

[00:29:51] And that's, and that's life.

[00:29:53] Um, but there's just, that's just the beginning of, of some of the applications.

[00:29:57] Yeah.

[00:29:58] Yeah.

[00:29:59] Well, I'm just trying to think of my husband right now.

[00:30:03] What do you guys think of Mike?

[00:30:06] I think he's definitely, if there was an A, A.

[00:30:10] Yeah.

[00:30:11] I was going to say dad is definitely an A.

[00:30:13] There's no way he's not.

[00:30:15] Yeah.

[00:30:16] Totally.

[00:30:16] But I, but you know, he can relate.

[00:30:20] He can turn it on when he wants to.

[00:30:23] Yeah, definitely.

[00:30:23] I think I, I, my experience, I would say he's an AC because analytical, but like, then

[00:30:31] he'll ask me like, Hey, what's the root of that one word?

[00:30:33] Um, and like, it's a very big picture thing.

[00:30:37] It involves a couple of Google searches.

[00:30:39] Um, so I think if, if that's kind of under the purview of C, I would say that that's definitely

[00:30:45] like how I see it.

[00:30:47] But he, I mean, he can relate to people.

[00:30:48] It's not like he's just an analytical robot, but like, you know, I would say like, he definitely

[00:30:54] is not afraid to go for like the big picture stuff.

[00:30:57] Like my fiance always comments that whenever we have dinner at like the cannies, like it's

[00:31:04] always like, wow, we've talked about some really profound stuff.

[00:31:08] And then when we have like, when we have dinner at his parents' house, it's like so mundane.

[00:31:15] Well, I think that's the overlap, right?

[00:31:18] The, um, the C, um, and Emma, it, it, I know it's not that you're top, but it does pop up

[00:31:27] and you're just amazing with insights that you bring to the party.

[00:31:30] So I think that's how we all relate, Amanda.

[00:31:35] I mean, we find our little, and, and does that kind of happen in teams?

[00:31:39] Like they kind of find their ways of relating.

[00:31:42] And you don't have to be like your, your partner or your team.

[00:31:48] You, you can be different, but then find how you do relate.

[00:31:54] Yeah, that's right.

[00:31:55] In fact, what we do in teams and families too, is we take turns operating in our areas

[00:32:01] of strength, our, our respective areas of strength.

[00:32:04] Um, and we're not, the good news is that unless we're the exact same talk type, we're always

[00:32:13] going to have one letter that's off between us.

[00:32:17] But what we also have the good news is we have one letter that's shared between us always

[00:32:25] because there are only three variables.

[00:32:27] And so, um, that's the beauty of it.

[00:32:30] And, and so what that means is maybe, okay, maybe Emma and Kiki are going to do some B together

[00:32:36] and maybe there's an AC at the table.

[00:32:39] And for that moment, the AC is just, you know, um, observing, listening in to the, the bees

[00:32:46] do their thing.

[00:32:46] But then when somebody needs some, uh, maybe some, some C or, or, and then they'll lean

[00:32:53] into the, the, the one who has C and we just take turns operating in our areas of strength

[00:32:57] and for teams and families, um, what's, what's, you know, a goal there is to be able to just,

[00:33:05] um, trust each other, you know, say, um, and especially, especially in the, in the workplace,

[00:33:12] um, because those different strengths do lead to, um, they end up providing something.

[00:33:21] If you're operating out of your own strength, that somebody else who's doing it sort of

[00:33:27] unnaturally, they're just not going to be able to produce the same result, not in the way

[00:33:31] that you do it natively.

[00:33:32] We're talking native and non-native.

[00:33:35] And, and so to just allow ourselves and accept ourselves and accept each other, um, it's

[00:33:41] a beautiful thing and it produces better results in families and in, in, in the work environment.

[00:33:48] Wow.

[00:33:50] So girls got any more questions for Amanda or anything else that we should cover?

[00:33:56] Amanda?

[00:33:56] I mean, I hope everybody goes and gets the book because I think it's totally eyeopening so

[00:34:04] that we can understand each other a little bit.

[00:34:06] What do you guys think?

[00:34:07] Yeah.

[00:34:07] Kiki or.

[00:34:08] Yeah, no, I was going to say, uh, Amanda, but you're bringing up, you know, the dynamics

[00:34:13] between maybe having like, you know, cause I'm thinking about work too.

[00:34:17] Like I hang out with some of my coworkers after work and there's one, uh, colleague of

[00:34:22] mine who is definitely, um, in a sitting.

[00:34:27] Um, and a lot of my colleagues are, you know, bees, um, primarily.

[00:34:33] So, well, a lot of bee conversation.

[00:34:35] Um, but then, you know, if there's like a C topic, C related kind of topic, um, and then

[00:34:42] he'll, he'll jump in and chat too.

[00:34:45] So it's interesting like that you were just mentioning that cause I can totally relate

[00:34:48] to seeing how that, like, um, you know, having that like experience at work.

[00:34:54] And, um, that makes me understand him a bit more.

[00:34:57] I think at first I had a hard time understanding him.

[00:35:00] Um, and, but now it's like, I have total admiration for, you know, being able to go to him with a

[00:35:06] question or be like, okay, what do you think about this?

[00:35:10] Like objectively, you know, um, when you have to, it's like, it's so great that all of us

[00:35:15] are different, but they're all different, like, you know, strengths and, um, that we can like

[00:35:20] rely on each other.

[00:35:22] And so it's really amazing.

[00:35:23] So I'm really happy to have learned about it.

[00:35:26] So thank you.

[00:35:27] Yeah.

[00:35:28] Yeah.

[00:35:28] Thanks for sharing that story.

[00:35:30] So many people have that story, you know, in their own version, um, at work, um, or in

[00:35:36] their families and yeah.

[00:35:38] So no, it's super important.

[00:35:41] Yeah, no, I think this is like really interesting.

[00:35:43] Cause I've never really like thought about like archetypes of like communication.

[00:35:49] So this has been kind of cool because I think like, you know, I have at work naturally because

[00:35:55] I, I work in under accounting, like a lot of A's and like, I'm comfortable working with

[00:36:01] A's, but you know, I work a lot with marketers as well who are definitely not A's, you know, like

[00:36:07] they're kind of probably a little bit more like B.

[00:36:10] Um, so it's kind of interesting.

[00:36:12] Cause it's like, I can see like why I'm in like the finance part of it and not like the

[00:36:17] marketing part of it.

[00:36:18] So that was just really interesting reflection.

[00:36:21] No, that's important too, Emma, because, um, actually it's, it's a reminder that our talk

[00:36:28] type and our career, um, there's actually, um, predictability there in terms of, um, alignment

[00:36:39] and satisfaction.

[00:36:39] And if we are, if we're happy at our, at our jobs, um, then there's a good chance that either

[00:36:47] the work itself is aligned with our talk type or our coworkers and colleagues, um, fulfill

[00:36:54] that space for us, even if the work isn't something we enjoy, um, a whole lot.

[00:36:59] So, um, having one of those align, absolutely important, crucial in, in, in a job.

[00:37:06] So, yeah, definitely.

[00:37:08] Right.

[00:37:09] Anything else, Amanda?

[00:37:11] You got us all organized.

[00:37:12] I can tell what the conversation is going to be.

[00:37:14] Your talk type Yolanda, but, um, there's, um, yes, there's, I mean, there's, there's so

[00:37:22] much more always, um, uh, you know, the A, B and C bombs, the body language, um, we could

[00:37:34] go on.

[00:37:35] I know.

[00:37:36] Oh, it's such rich stuff.

[00:37:39] Yeah.

[00:37:40] And it's so back to you guys.

[00:37:42] When you, when you look at the book, um, she really guides you through it and the way

[00:37:48] in which you can identify and the humor, like she looks at humor and how for our talk

[00:37:55] types, how humor shows up differently, which I thought was really good.

[00:37:59] And then I also love that you put the, um, famous people that were of your talk of your

[00:38:05] type.

[00:38:06] So Emma, I think, um, Bill Gates, right.

[00:38:11] Falls into.

[00:38:12] Is, was he Bill Gates and Elizabeth Warren.

[00:38:15] Oh, okay.

[00:38:17] There you go.

[00:38:17] Yep.

[00:38:19] And Kiki, I'm, what was, um, you were a C.

[00:38:24] B, B, C.

[00:38:25] B, C.

[00:38:25] B, C would be, um, Amy Schumer.

[00:38:30] Or Obama was also, oh, was it.

[00:38:35] Okay.

[00:38:36] A C.

[00:38:37] Yeah.

[00:38:37] Cause he, you can think of a speech from him and doesn't even have to be a speech.

[00:38:40] Um, cause those are curated, but maybe, um, an interview with Obama, um, you know, he's,

[00:38:47] he's talking facts first.

[00:38:49] Uh, and then underneath that though, is the deep meaning about what this means for everyday

[00:38:53] working Americans and democracy.

[00:38:57] And so AC.

[00:39:00] And was Oprah.

[00:39:02] Yes.

[00:39:03] Mine.

[00:39:04] Right.

[00:39:04] CB.

[00:39:05] CB.

[00:39:06] Yeah.

[00:39:07] Anyway, well, it was really fun and so enjoyed this.

[00:39:11] So, um, so how can our listeners and viewers find and follow you?

[00:39:17] Yep.

[00:39:18] So, um, you can get the book on Amazon and Barnes and Noble.

[00:39:22] You can go to AmandaKenderes.com talktypes.com.

[00:39:25] Um, and, uh, there are some links to connect there.

[00:39:29] Um, and also a link to take the test.

[00:39:32] Um, you can just, um, you know, see.

[00:39:36] If you, if you're having trouble figuring out your talk type, um, take the test and see what

[00:39:39] you get, um, that route too.

[00:39:41] And that can be a good confirmation.

[00:39:43] Perfect.

[00:39:44] And Amanda, what would you tell your 20 something self today?

[00:39:50] Oh, gosh.

[00:39:51] Um, I, I, you know, it would have to be something around decisions.

[00:39:55] Although, you know, where I am now, um, I've made some decisions I wouldn't make again.

[00:40:00] I mean, we all have, um, but, um, yeah, but I, I would say maybe take, take more time

[00:40:09] making those decisions.

[00:40:11] And, and before you really commit the big ones, I think we do this a little bit backwards

[00:40:16] in life.

[00:40:16] Um, we spent so much time on Amazon reading reviews about a body wash, but when we, um,

[00:40:23] commit to a life partner, sometimes we jump in without really thinking about it.

[00:40:27] Um, and so the time spent is, is, it is a reverse correlation going on.

[00:40:36] I think, um, with the big things and the small things.

[00:40:39] And I, I think it makes sense.

[00:40:41] It's hard for us to wrap our head around the big things.

[00:40:43] And sometimes we can short circuit if we think about the gravity of them for too long.

[00:40:47] So, um, but we can wrap our heads around a body wash.

[00:40:51] So.

[00:40:56] Um, no, I don't know if you had a chance to go to our shop to look at the cars and gifts

[00:41:02] we have.

[00:41:03] Did you have a chance?

[00:41:04] So you did.

[00:41:04] Did.

[00:41:05] And which one did spoke to you?

[00:41:08] Um, the one about, I'm sorry, this is good.

[00:41:11] This is like, this is, uh, see if you, if you ask me about it, but the one about, uh,

[00:41:17] the, sorry for your loss.

[00:41:21] That's the one I want.

[00:41:23] Okay.

[00:41:24] That was, um, geeky, right?

[00:41:27] I mean, I designed that lovely for you and, um,

[00:41:32] Oh, it's C C I can feel the C coming out of it.

[00:41:35] Isn't that interesting?

[00:41:36] Even in the artwork that we produce.

[00:41:39] Oh yeah.

[00:41:41] That story is heavy C I think.

[00:41:44] Well, no wonder I was attracted to it because I, I mean, gosh, I, again, this sounds awful,

[00:41:48] but it happens as part of life, but I, I know someone who's going to lose someone soon.

[00:41:54] And so, um, and that was like, Oh, this is perfect.

[00:41:57] It's beautiful.

[00:41:58] The message, everything's lovely.

[00:41:59] And, and sometimes, you know, when people, uh, have a, have an illness and it's known and

[00:42:05] they're older and, you know, letting them go as part of the process.

[00:42:09] So, I mean, I joke about it, but it was the one that spoke to me.

[00:42:14] And so, um, it is lovely.

[00:42:16] And so I love that the story that it was created out of can also extend to where it's going.

[00:42:21] So I love that.

[00:42:22] Yeah.

[00:42:22] It's more C.

[00:42:23] Yeah.

[00:42:23] The girls come in and they go, Hey mom, you got a card for this.

[00:42:28] You got a card for everything.

[00:42:30] So.

[00:42:30] And I'll be back in 20 minutes to get it.

[00:42:33] So thanks Kiki for that.

[00:42:35] Yes.

[00:42:37] Of course.

[00:42:38] Thanks mom.

[00:42:38] Yes.

[00:42:40] Anything else girls?

[00:42:42] Good.

[00:42:42] Everybody's good.

[00:42:43] Okay.

[00:42:44] Thank you so much, Amanda, for joining us today and girls.

[00:42:47] Thanks for bringing your calendars to join us.

[00:42:50] Thank you for accommodating.

[00:42:51] Thank you.

[00:42:52] Thank you everyone.

[00:42:52] It was so great to have a conversation with all of you and, um, and so fun.

[00:42:56] Thank you.

[00:42:58] Thank you for listening today.

[00:43:00] And we sure hope you enjoyed this episode.

[00:43:02] If you did, please leave a comment wherever you listen to your podcasts.

[00:43:06] Tell a friend about us, join our public Facebook group, girl, take the lead, or visit our website.

[00:43:13] Girl, take the lead pod.com.

[00:43:15] We also have a YouTube channel where your subscription would be appreciated.

[00:43:19] Once you're on YouTube search at girl, take the lead.

[00:43:22] And we recently expanded to YouTube music where you can find a video of this episode.

[00:43:28] You can also find a video on Spotify.

[00:43:30] Here are three episode takeaways.

[00:43:34] One, all communication stems from sharing experiences of understanding and categorized into three types.

[00:43:44] A, factual talk.

[00:43:46] B, relating through experiences.

[00:43:49] And C, deep meaning making.

[00:43:53] Our individual alignment with these types affects how we connect with others.

[00:43:58] And perhaps our experience of joy.

[00:44:01] Two, there are six talk profiles.

[00:44:07] Ranking the three types creates six unique talk profiles.

[00:44:13] Each serving as a personal home base.

[00:44:17] Understanding these profiles enhances connection, decision making, and empathy by aligning communication with others' preferences.

[00:44:29] Three, our talk type influences how we listen and interpret others.

[00:44:37] Helping us avoid taking things personally.

[00:44:40] In families and teams, differing talk types are common.

[00:44:44] But often share one overlap.

[00:44:48] Offering opportunities for improved collaboration and understanding.

[00:44:53] We've been asking our guests to go to our card and gift store at our website.

[00:44:59] GirlTakeTheLeadPod.com slash shop.

[00:45:02] And tell us which items spoke most to them.

[00:45:04] And Amanda picked Thinking of You.

[00:45:07] So check out Amanda's Choice and see our newest birthday cards that we've added.

[00:45:13] Our next episode will feature our guest, Dr. Kate Flynn, who is a crisis coach and developmental psychologist with a PhD in developmental psychology.

[00:45:26] We are going to discuss post-traumatic growth.

[00:45:30] The differences between trauma and crisis.

[00:45:33] And we'll reference the book, The Body Keeps the Score.

[00:45:39] An amazing book.

[00:45:41] Our hope with this episode is that perhaps we all recognize that we can have stuff we haven't even seen.

[00:45:49] That gets in the way of our healing and going for what we really want in our lives.

[00:45:56] So talk to you soon.

[00:45:58] Bye.