196. Avatar-Led Learning: Revolutionizing Emotional Intelligence Training by Innovating Difficult Conversations

[00:00:07] Welcome to episode 196 of Girl Take the Lead, where each week we explore womanhood and leadership. And I'm your host, Yolanda Canny. Janine Klein, CEO and co-founder of the Emotional Intelligence Institute or EII, and Andrea Canny, actor and EII interactive learning specialist, plus my beloved sister-in-law, join me to talk about how

[00:00:36] Avatar-Led Training is delivering human-focused solutions. EII is taking the power of creative storytelling, and instead of using it to entertain us, they help people understand each other on a deeper level. Their mission is to create immersive training experiences that blend artistry with emotional intelligence. Janine is an

[00:01:06] innovator of immersive learning, virtual and live action simulations, and role play experiences. As owner and creative director, she leads her teams to pioneer methods for leader development and challenging conversations, making a definitive impact in the fields of defense, healthcare, and education. Andrea, you may

[00:01:36] remember, is an amazing performer with a 40-year career spanning through Asia, Europe, and the USA. She's joined us on four other episodes, and you can check the show notes for those details. Her Disney career began at Disney's MGM Studios as the original Belle of Beauty and the Beast, and was voted vocalist of the decade by BroadwayWorld.com.

[00:02:06] In 2020. She also won Critics' Pick, Best Actress in a Musical 2018 for her portrayal of Mama Rose in Gypsy at the Garden Theater.

[00:02:21] Topics we'll cover in the episode are Emotional Intelligence Institute Origins, and we'll do an avatar-led demonstration where you'll hear Andrea performing as the avatar, and I'll play the unsuspecting manager.

[00:02:39] So you can see or hear the interactions, and believe me, they are totally improvised.

[00:02:47] We'll also talk about the benefits of using avatar-led training, and then the role of improvisation in storytelling, and their client feedback.

[00:03:01] Enjoy the listen, and here you go.

[00:03:10] So hi, ladies. Welcome to Girl Take the Lead.

[00:03:14] This is going to be so much fun.

[00:03:17] And, you know, Bubba comes back, and every time I get an email or a text of some kind that says,

[00:03:25] can you make her my sister-in-law?

[00:03:28] Because you've got the best ones.

[00:03:32] I'm like, I know.

[00:03:33] And now you can't have her.

[00:03:34] She's mine.

[00:03:35] So welcome back, Bubbs.

[00:03:37] Thank you.

[00:03:37] Well, it's always a pleasure, and that's how I feel about you.

[00:03:40] So we're happy to have you in our family.

[00:03:43] And Janine, welcome to Girl Take the Lead.

[00:03:46] We're going to learn so much about your technology and what you're doing with it, and it just sounds so exciting.

[00:03:51] So thank you so much for coming.

[00:03:53] Oh, thank you for having me.

[00:03:54] It's an honor to be around Andrea's family.

[00:03:58] Me too.

[00:03:59] I feel the same way.

[00:04:01] So how about we start, if you would introduce yourself, and just in case, Andrea, people don't know you,

[00:04:07] although I'm sure that they do, tell them a little bit about yourself.

[00:04:11] Why don't we start with you, and then we'll switch over to Janine.

[00:04:14] Okay.

[00:04:15] Well, my name is Andrea Canney.

[00:04:17] My sister-in-law, beautiful Yolanda here, is married to my older brother, Steve.

[00:04:22] I've been a professional performer for 40 years this year.

[00:04:26] 2025 will be 40-year anniversary.

[00:04:28] And in this capacity, I'm an actor or an ILS, which is Interactive Learning Specialist for Emotional Intelligence Institute,

[00:04:37] which was created by my fabulous friend Janine Klein here.

[00:04:42] Thank you.

[00:04:43] I'm Janine Klein.

[00:04:44] I'm the owner of Emotional Intelligence Institute.

[00:04:47] Basically started this in 2020.

[00:04:50] It's a human-led avatar service, and I'm really excited to share what that means.

[00:04:56] Great.

[00:04:56] So why don't we go there?

[00:04:59] Why don't you talk a little bit then, Janine, about the Institute and why you went in this direction

[00:05:05] and how it's different than other traditional training approaches?

[00:05:12] Well, I saw at UCF about eight or nine years ago a method of avatars that were used in live time for training.

[00:05:19] And the minute I saw that, I was like, this actually has the ability to transform the world with training.

[00:05:26] Because I saw a way that people could have a dress rehearsal in life the way that artists do in a really safe space,

[00:05:33] and at the same time give work to artists.

[00:05:35] So I just had this vision the minute I saw it.

[00:05:37] I was just like, I have to be involved in this in any way that I can.

[00:05:40] And I was working at a university, and I found off-the-shelf avatar products that were created specifically for teacher fatigue.

[00:05:52] And when I found the technology, I called the people that created it, and I was like, is there a way to get licensed?

[00:05:58] I want to pay for this somehow.

[00:05:59] Because at that point, I had the Air Force that was really interested in the work that I was doing at the university,

[00:06:04] and I wanted to continue that work.

[00:06:06] And it turns out the company was purchased by Roblox.

[00:06:11] And I contacted Roblox, and I was like, can I show you what I'm doing with this technology?

[00:06:16] And I got to the head avatar services, and they said, this is tremendous.

[00:06:20] What's on your wish list?

[00:06:21] And they created outfits for us and kept the server going for us for years with this technology.

[00:06:28] Wow, that's so great.

[00:06:29] Yeah.

[00:06:30] And since then, a lot of this has been used mainly for trauma-based work with first responders, DOD, and the Air Force primarily,

[00:06:39] with sexual assault prevention, chaplain services, death notifications,

[00:06:45] things that are really kind of difficult conversations that AI can't duplicate.

[00:06:50] And there's been such a need for this because PowerPoints haven't been working.

[00:06:55] Roleplay wasn't working.

[00:06:56] And it's just been such an easy, neat, strange relationship.

[00:07:01] But it's grown leaps and bounds in four years.

[00:07:06] We're in over 100 bases now.

[00:07:09] Yeah.

[00:07:10] Well, do you think that maybe we should do a demonstration of it?

[00:07:16] That'd be great.

[00:07:17] And then, and listeners, you can, I think we'll get the gist of what this technology is like.

[00:07:24] We'll try and describe it.

[00:07:26] But there will be an avatar that will come up on the screen, and I'm going to engage with the avatar and ask some,

[00:07:37] and hopefully help with providing a solution.

[00:07:41] So let's start it.

[00:08:12] Great.

[00:08:14] Conversation.

[00:08:15] And when you're ready for it to end, you feel like it's reached a conclusion, you can say end conversation.

[00:08:19] And then I'll go off screen.

[00:08:21] Okay.

[00:08:24] So here we go.

[00:08:28] Hi, Yolanda.

[00:08:29] How are you?

[00:08:30] Good.

[00:08:31] How are you?

[00:08:32] I'm okay.

[00:08:33] I just, I just kind of needed to bend your ear a little bit, if you don't mind.

[00:08:37] Do you have time?

[00:08:37] Sure.

[00:08:37] I've got time.

[00:08:38] Come on in.

[00:08:39] Okay.

[00:08:40] Thank you so much.

[00:08:41] I, okay.

[00:08:42] So this is, it may sound petty, but it's something that's been happening consistently.

[00:08:47] And, and I, I really need your advice on it is somebody has been consistently stealing my lunch.

[00:08:54] I, I've been trying to lose weight.

[00:08:55] So I've been buying lean cuisines that I like and, and they're just disappearing.

[00:09:03] And how long has this been going on?

[00:09:07] Oh, I don't know.

[00:09:08] Maybe about a month.

[00:09:12] And any, and I know, did you put your name on it and mark it?

[00:09:17] So it's very clear that those are yours.

[00:09:19] Yeah.

[00:09:20] I, I mean, after the first couple, like I always stack them in the same part of the freezer,

[00:09:24] but once they started going away, I was like, oh, okay, maybe I need to put my name on it.

[00:09:28] So I sharpied it on there.

[00:09:31] And I even went so far after a couple of them went away again, after I started marking them

[00:09:37] was to put them in a, you know, a grocery bag, just a plastic bag.

[00:09:41] And they're still going, they're still disappearing.

[00:09:45] So a couple of concerning things about that one is, you know, how you're taking care of

[00:09:50] yourself.

[00:09:50] If your lunch is disappearing, do you have other lunches?

[00:09:54] Like maybe we should put some sad to say, you know, sad to say it's like, I'm having to

[00:10:00] go out to eat on those days.

[00:10:02] Cause I don't know if it's going to disappear or not, but you know, there's been a couple

[00:10:07] of weeks where it's been almost every single day.

[00:10:10] And that's like for five meals, that's almost like 20 bucks at Publix.

[00:10:14] So, you know, I'm, I'm out of money now.

[00:10:18] So, so what are your thoughts about that?

[00:10:21] Have you talked to anybody about, about what's going on?

[00:10:25] Well, I hate to accuse someone cause I don't have concrete facts, but I think it's been

[00:10:33] Patty.

[00:10:35] And, and why do you think it might be Patty?

[00:10:38] Patty.

[00:10:40] Well, the other day, not the other day, it was about a month ago, actually.

[00:10:47] That's why it kind of seems suspect to me that this is when it started happening, but

[00:10:54] I mentioned something in passing about my, my girlfriend and you know, our relationship

[00:11:01] and Patty seemed kind of uncomfortable by that.

[00:11:05] You know, it wasn't a conversation with her.

[00:11:07] She just happened to be there in the, in the room when I was talking about my girlfriend

[00:11:13] and I, I don't, I hope that's not the case, but maybe that's the case.

[00:11:18] So your intuition is kind of coming up and telling you that it could possibly be her.

[00:11:23] Do you have any other facts?

[00:11:24] Yeah.

[00:11:26] Yeah.

[00:11:26] Um, I did actually one time find one of my containers with the food Eden.

[00:11:34] It had my name on it was in her wastebasket by her desk.

[00:11:39] Okay.

[00:11:40] And that was really sus to me.

[00:11:43] I was like, wait a second.

[00:11:45] Why?

[00:11:45] I didn't eat that.

[00:11:46] Yeah.

[00:11:47] And so why did, I mean, I guess a couple of things, if there's, I'm concerned about you,

[00:11:55] you know, not, and you taking care of yourself.

[00:11:58] Thank you.

[00:11:58] Maybe we should put some supply in a different, um, freezer so that you have it.

[00:12:06] But then I'm thinking also, what do you think if I spoke with Patty a little bit about this?

[00:12:13] I would, I would be up for that because I, I don't want to be the one to accuse her.

[00:12:21] And if she is harboring some ill will towards me, I mean, I don't know why eating my lunch

[00:12:28] would be a way to act, react to not liking that I'm gay, but you know, whatever it could

[00:12:34] be.

[00:12:34] I don't know.

[00:12:35] I don't know if she's going through financial hardship or, and, and it's just coincidence.

[00:12:39] I have no clue.

[00:12:41] Yeah.

[00:12:41] Well, maybe we can do some, a little fact finding there.

[00:12:44] And what I can do is have the conversation with her and then come back to you and let you

[00:12:50] know how that went.

[00:12:51] Um, if there's something deeper about this, maybe we'll need to, you know, sit down together

[00:12:58] and talk about it, but I'm hoping that it's just, um, something else is going on and that

[00:13:05] it isn't a personal thing against you.

[00:13:10] Okay.

[00:13:10] I appreciate it.

[00:13:11] We definitely will check it out.

[00:13:13] So, okay.

[00:13:14] Thanks so much.

[00:13:15] And just let me know what you need from me.

[00:13:17] I'll keep bringing in my lunches, but.

[00:13:20] Number one, let's find you a different place for that.

[00:13:23] Your lunches so that you get them.

[00:13:26] And, um, and we'll just keep the conversation open and thank you so much.

[00:13:30] It's a lot, it takes a lot of courage to come in and talk about things that really bother

[00:13:35] us.

[00:13:35] So thank you for, thank you for doing that.

[00:13:38] That's really good.

[00:13:38] Well, thank you.

[00:13:39] Thank you for being a safe space for me to do that too.

[00:13:41] I appreciate it.

[00:13:42] Okay.

[00:13:43] Awesome.

[00:13:44] Talk to you later.

[00:13:45] Bye.

[00:13:46] Great job.

[00:13:47] Gosh, you're so nurturing.

[00:13:49] And normally after the conversation, we'd kind of debrief it or facilitate it.

[00:13:53] Usually debriefs, you know, how did, how do you feel that conversation went from the

[00:13:57] conversation, just from the conversation perspective?

[00:13:59] I thought it was, um, interesting to see how it didn't feel like an avatar.

[00:14:10] That's good to hear.

[00:14:11] Yeah.

[00:14:12] Yeah.

[00:14:12] It felt like I was engaged with a human, even though it looked like an avatar.

[00:14:20] So I thought that went okay.

[00:14:22] And I could feel my voice changing a little bit to be more empathetic.

[00:14:27] And especially when, you know, the gender bias came up and I was, you know, definitely

[00:14:32] wanting to resolve that.

[00:14:34] And I could see what you're sometimes have talked about is different layers that you can

[00:14:39] go a little deeper into.

[00:14:40] Um, and have the conversation it, but what's so great is it, it wasn't really the person.

[00:14:53] I mean, I got to practice what was happening and how I could respond to it.

[00:15:01] Yeah.

[00:15:03] And that's pretty powerful.

[00:15:07] Yeah.

[00:15:08] Because most of the time you get hit with these conversations and you're like, Oh, what, what,

[00:15:15] what just happened?

[00:15:16] Yeah.

[00:15:18] But this was amazing.

[00:15:19] You guys.

[00:15:20] I mean, I, I really wish that when I was managing people that I could practice with somebody

[00:15:32] and it is different than role-playing.

[00:15:34] It very much.

[00:15:35] So, I mean, like with the role play, if you think of it as simple as this, like say you

[00:15:42] think back to offices where you've been bullied in the past, you've had people who've been backbiting,

[00:15:48] whatever people, some people you do get along with, but say you're put into a situation of

[00:15:54] role-play where they, your boss comes down and says, okay, we're going to do these difficult

[00:15:58] conversations and you've got to do it with these people.

[00:16:01] And it's dealing with, because our scenarios can range from approaching somebody about bad

[00:16:08] hygiene to sexual assault, to suicidal ideation, postpartum, you name it.

[00:16:14] It's a bad toxic leadership.

[00:16:16] Yeah.

[00:16:17] Anything like that.

[00:16:18] And can you imagine, like, if you think of your bullies at work and that you have to

[00:16:24] role-play with them about something really difficult and then you have to go back to the office and

[00:16:27] work with them?

[00:16:29] Like, ah, act.

[00:16:30] Yeah.

[00:16:31] Like, I don't, I can't imagine that would make people, one, comfortable or two, be effective.

[00:16:36] And you know the person, you just had lunch with the person.

[00:16:39] So sitting there and taking it at the moment, nobody takes that seriously.

[00:16:41] Nobody's really invested in it.

[00:16:43] Nobody believes it when they're sitting there where it's here, it's in, they're in, they're

[00:16:47] locked in.

[00:16:48] And this is real.

[00:16:48] And they don't know enough about us to understand what's happening behind the scenes.

[00:16:52] They just know they're in.

[00:16:53] And if they don't take it seriously, they're laughing or they're looking as snickering,

[00:16:57] the avatar calls them out in the moment.

[00:16:58] They can see them in the moment to respond.

[00:17:01] I had, I had to call a gen, a person who was actually a general.

[00:17:05] He was, as a participant, he was playing somebody of lower rank, but he was chewing his gum

[00:17:11] like crazy.

[00:17:12] And I, I had to call him out on it because my character was superior to him.

[00:17:18] And he loved that so much.

[00:17:21] He loved it.

[00:17:22] He was like, oh man, it's, it's been so long since I've been a subordinate rank.

[00:17:27] You know what I mean?

[00:17:28] And it was so cool to hear him afterwards that he was just, he really liked, he, he had full

[00:17:33] respect for that, which I was like, that's why we're doing this.

[00:17:37] It's the full buy-in, you know?

[00:17:39] And I think the suspension of disbelief, especially for people like myself, I've seen so many

[00:17:45] people in the air force in these scenarios that are participants that are empaths as well.

[00:17:52] And a lot of people just assume that everybody in the service is not.

[00:17:56] And I'm like, that is not the case.

[00:17:57] There are a lot of empaths and seeing them be able to suspend their disbelief and really

[00:18:05] come at you with love and care.

[00:18:07] I mean, I've, I've had big burly men say to a character that is either suicidal ideation,

[00:18:15] postpartum, any of these coming at you with, you know, we are above all, we are family.

[00:18:20] I love you.

[00:18:22] We're here to take care of you and with, with full sincerity.

[00:18:25] So, you know, they're buying in, which is beautiful.

[00:18:29] And I think that's one of the major strengths of this format of this technology.

[00:18:35] It also seemed like one of the strengths is you're helping the participant uncover things

[00:18:42] about themselves in the moment.

[00:18:47] A lot of it is personal stories that we naturally open up to in life.

[00:18:53] And that vulnerability is what really is the goal is for them to share a commonality with

[00:18:59] a person that's suffering.

[00:19:00] So they don't feel alone.

[00:19:02] Like that true empathy is what we're going for, um, from people.

[00:19:05] And when they open up and share their stories, we embrace that and we ride along with it.

[00:19:10] Nobody shuts that down when that's happening.

[00:19:13] We, cause, because that vulnerability is the goal.

[00:19:17] And when you have these big leaders that, I mean, I had one case of a person, I'll tell you

[00:19:22] this master sergeant was ready to, he was ready to retire.

[00:19:25] And he literally put the people that were perpetrators in the seats as participants.

[00:19:31] And he had a kind of a person that maybe wasn't the most accepting kind of maintenance

[00:19:37] person sit down with a character that played a gay man that felt extremely lonely at Christmas

[00:19:42] with his partner deployed.

[00:19:44] And by the end of this, this person that does not, you know, seem to want to accept certain

[00:19:48] things was inviting him over to put up Christmas lights with his wife.

[00:19:54] That's super cool.

[00:19:56] That's my favorite stories, but I love that.

[00:19:59] Yeah.

[00:20:00] I'm sorry.

[00:20:01] So, so the storytelling when you, cause we've had a couple episodes on storytelling, when

[00:20:07] you look at storytelling, is that you're looking at it as the participant, uh, revealing things

[00:20:17] in their life that are the story?

[00:20:21] Is that how you look at it?

[00:20:22] Gosh, no way.

[00:20:23] That's kind of a nice way to put it because it's an improvised conversation without a,

[00:20:30] sometimes it isn't a beginning, middle and end with, with conversation.

[00:20:34] But I, I like that way you frame it actually, because you are trying to get the stories from

[00:20:39] them and that's what gives them, gives us the ability to give them more of our story.

[00:20:44] So it's kind of a conjoined version of storytelling in a way with improvisation.

[00:20:50] Yeah.

[00:20:51] And we, yeah, exactly.

[00:20:52] And I, I think one of the, one of my favorite things that I learned in my initial training

[00:20:57] was about bread crumbing.

[00:21:00] Like, you know, we have our scenarios, we know what our points are we're supposed to make,

[00:21:05] but you don't want to just, it's supposed to be a conversation.

[00:21:08] So you don't want to come in and just tell a story and info dump, right?

[00:21:13] You want to ease into it.

[00:21:16] So that's why I was giving you little bits at a time, bread crumbing you the information

[00:21:19] so that you can ask the questions.

[00:21:23] And it really, I think it helps calm the people down as well.

[00:21:27] So they buy into it a little bit more because we're not just unloading on them.

[00:21:34] I mean, I, and also like one of the things that I love about it is that that whole dress

[00:21:40] rehearsal part of it.

[00:21:42] One example that I'll never forget.

[00:21:44] I loved it so much because the facilitator was so spot on.

[00:21:48] It was an all zoom meeting.

[00:21:51] Nobody was in the same room.

[00:21:53] Everybody was all over the world and they had had their days of training prior.

[00:21:58] And so they were introducing this to their schedule.

[00:22:01] And this particular scenario happened to be about a spoken accent bias.

[00:22:08] And the woman who was the participant, I could tell she was getting triggered hard.

[00:22:16] And so she paused the conversation and she just, she was shaking.

[00:22:21] She was just breaking down.

[00:22:23] And the facilitator and the other participants of the other people watching, they were all

[00:22:28] in the chat sending her hearts.

[00:22:30] You're doing great.

[00:22:31] Just, we got you.

[00:22:33] You're awesome.

[00:22:34] Take your time.

[00:22:36] Breathe.

[00:22:37] All this support while he was guiding her through, like he was just saying, okay, well, let's

[00:22:42] get some suggestions from other people.

[00:22:45] Giving her time to relax.

[00:22:47] And then gather herself while she's listening to other people because she not only had, her

[00:22:54] father had dealt with this situation being an immigrant, but also her husband.

[00:22:59] So she was, of course she was going to get triggered.

[00:23:01] This was her life.

[00:23:02] And with two people she loves enormously.

[00:23:05] So this, that felt like the biggest gift to her because of the way everything played

[00:23:11] out that she had the time to have a dry run and figure out possible ways to deal with it

[00:23:18] because she guarantees she's going to go through that different times in her life, you know?

[00:23:25] So I thought that was just such a big benefit.

[00:23:28] So, so you are looking at the emotion.

[00:23:34] I'm getting kind of now it's coming full circle.

[00:23:37] The emotional intelligence of each of us and where we are and then helping us broaden that, expand that.

[00:23:50] So we can absolutely be more functional.

[00:23:53] And there were, I mean, oh, I wish I had had this so long ago.

[00:24:02] Especially the bully conversation.

[00:24:04] When someone is bullying you, man, I wish I could have, you know, I ran from the room

[00:24:12] and unfortunately I closed the door a little too hard that it slammed, but I then got into

[00:24:21] serious trouble over that.

[00:24:23] Yeah.

[00:24:23] But nobody looked at the source.

[00:24:26] Like, why did that happen?

[00:24:28] Right.

[00:24:29] What was behind it?

[00:24:31] And I didn't ever feel, listen to, or anyone in leadership take the time to understand

[00:24:43] the different layers of it.

[00:24:46] You know, all they saw was angry woman, left, you know, just had to flee and, oh, sorry, slammed the door.

[00:24:55] You know, and I always kept trying to help people see like, no, let's look at the cause.

[00:25:03] The cause back here, there was a guy who was not respectful, who was not listening, who was not there.

[00:25:13] And I can see now when you say conversations, man, if I had to do that all over again,

[00:25:20] oh, the body would be trained, the body would be relaxed.

[00:25:25] I would be able to say, you know, this isn't going too well.

[00:25:28] Why don't we just pause?

[00:25:30] We'll go and handle this another day.

[00:25:34] You know, and I could have left with dignity and grace instead.

[00:25:40] Yeah, it's true.

[00:25:42] It's creating that safe space for people to have these difficult conversations.

[00:25:46] That is, I feel the appreciation from most participants that they really appreciate having

[00:25:55] that opportunity to be heard.

[00:25:58] Like you said, everybody wants, basically we're humans.

[00:26:01] We want to be seen and we want to be heard.

[00:26:03] That's it.

[00:26:03] That's basic.

[00:26:04] And it's super important.

[00:26:07] And I like that.

[00:26:09] When you bring up these topics too, like for basic training or young people, when we're

[00:26:14] doing sexual harassment or we're giving you a victim statement of what it feels like to

[00:26:19] go through that experience, or we're dealing with hygiene, sometimes it's also to remind

[00:26:24] them, bathe and don't rape people.

[00:26:27] Honest to God.

[00:26:27] You know, it's like, here's what the rules are, right?

[00:26:31] Like this is what harassment looks like.

[00:26:33] Don't do it.

[00:26:34] We're showing it to you now so you can see it and know that we're aware of it.

[00:26:37] And this is what it feels like and looks like when you do it.

[00:26:39] So that can leave an impact with somebody that, you know, not, you know, to say people

[00:26:43] are going to go do things, but you don't know, right?

[00:26:45] So this is what it feels like from, from somebody that's crying, that's been drugged and gone

[00:26:48] through this experience and has no control of their life.

[00:26:51] And they're crying hysterically and they're worried about everything.

[00:26:54] Don't put another human being through that is the goal, right?

[00:26:58] Yeah.

[00:26:59] Or, or to just like seek to understand more.

[00:27:02] I mean, yeah.

[00:27:06] What we think the, our own perception is in the moment, there's always something more

[00:27:13] behind it when there's other aspects of it.

[00:27:17] So, um, I love it.

[00:27:19] I love, I mean, I love what you're doing.

[00:27:22] This is so good.

[00:27:24] Um, see, I think we've covered a lot of these things.

[00:27:29] I guess one of the thing, one of the questions would be like, what kind of feedback do you

[00:27:33] get from your clients?

[00:27:35] I mean, I'd have to say I started this in 2018, um, became a company in 2020.

[00:27:42] I was a one person shop and now there's 30 of us because of the need based off of word

[00:27:48] of mouth.

[00:27:50] Not one piece of marketing material has gone out about this.

[00:27:54] So it breaks my heart because I'm a marketer, but go ahead.

[00:27:57] No, we need it.

[00:27:58] Don't worry.

[00:27:58] We're getting there.

[00:28:00] But the feedback to us, we don't hear, we don't hear that was a great job because it's

[00:28:04] kind of, it's almost a little bit thankless for the performers in a way that's not normal

[00:28:08] for them.

[00:28:09] Right.

[00:28:09] They don't get the applause at the end.

[00:28:10] They don't get to feel like they made that connection.

[00:28:13] They do feel it in the moment.

[00:28:14] They get that moment, but they don't have that same experience.

[00:28:19] The only thing we'll hear about is complaints.

[00:28:22] We know it's doing well, um, when we don't hear anything, which we mainly don't.

[00:28:26] And the feedback forms that we get, um, there's some that are being from the chaplain

[00:28:30] college that are like literally being published where there's just a percentage and increase

[00:28:34] in engagement after this exercise.

[00:28:36] There's just been a lot of, um, very strong feedback.

[00:28:39] So when the air force they've grabbed onto it and, you know, a group of improv artists

[00:28:45] and the air force is another whole podcast.

[00:28:47] Like, what is, what is that?

[00:28:48] How did that happen?

[00:28:49] But that's where beauty comes from when, and you know, that's where innovation happens

[00:28:54] when you collide two worlds that aren't used to each other.

[00:28:56] But that feedback has been just us from two to 30 in four years.

[00:29:01] And in one kind of industry, we're doing now more with police force and really high

[00:29:07] intensity side of traumatic things for de-escalation, which I'm really excited about to get in with

[00:29:11] first responders.

[00:29:12] But it's been, it's grown that much without any marketing.

[00:29:17] So it's, that's pretty strong feedback.

[00:29:20] Yeah.

[00:29:21] And plus when, when we're in these sessions for the most part, we're usually able to hear

[00:29:26] the debrief after.

[00:29:28] And sometimes depending on how many scenarios they do within the time slot, they may do a

[00:29:35] scenario, then a debrief scenario debrief.

[00:29:38] Or sometimes like yesterday I did because, you know, we were dealing with hurricane issues

[00:29:42] with everybody in Orlando.

[00:29:43] And now I'm in Ohio, I did six in a row.

[00:29:47] And then by the time we were lucky enough to get all six into the timeframe.

[00:29:52] And then I didn't get to hear any debrief because after the six, they went on a break

[00:29:55] and then their time slot was done.

[00:29:57] But for the most part, you can usually hear them talk about it.

[00:30:02] And it's really great to hear the conversation, the very important conversations that those

[00:30:08] scenarios started.

[00:30:10] They don't always go the way either the participant wants or was intended.

[00:30:17] But then when you listen to that conversation afterwards, you're like, that's where the

[00:30:21] money is.

[00:30:21] That's where the gold is.

[00:30:22] That was an important conversation that obviously needed to be had.

[00:30:27] And I think that's a huge strength.

[00:30:30] And we hear it too from the facilitators, you know, their faces light up when they see us,

[00:30:36] you know, and they're like, I'm just so excited for today's session.

[00:30:39] And you can hear the intensity in their voice and they're, they're thrilled, you know, to,

[00:30:44] to do it.

[00:30:44] So that to me, I take that as positive feedback.

[00:30:48] Yeah.

[00:30:50] I, I think it must be amazing.

[00:30:54] I mean, you must see like where somebody, a participant, you see them kind of cross over

[00:31:00] into that disbelief.

[00:31:02] Like they, they suspend the disbelief.

[00:31:05] You must be able to see it somehow.

[00:31:07] It's within seconds.

[00:31:08] Yeah.

[00:31:09] It's within seconds.

[00:31:09] Especially if you call them out for something or of a behavior, they snap right into attention

[00:31:14] after that.

[00:31:14] Like, don't laugh at this.

[00:31:15] This is my life.

[00:31:16] You know, I'm calling, whatever it is to get them back in the moment.

[00:31:19] If there's kind of snickering, but they're vested because that voice is live and they,

[00:31:23] and they, and we're talking about real things that are happening in the moment of our

[00:31:26] life, you know, which I can't do.

[00:31:29] So that draws them in because there's a real person that's like a lot of voice actors I

[00:31:35] have working here because it's a lot of it is putting stuff in your voice to get them

[00:31:38] hooked emotionally with that avatar.

[00:31:41] That's where that strong acting comes from.

[00:31:43] Yeah.

[00:31:44] Well, I mean, I'll tell you a fun story because you know where I'm sitting in dad's old den,

[00:31:49] right?

[00:31:49] And this is where I do, do it.

[00:31:53] And there was a time when mom and Bridget were up here.

[00:31:55] And they were awake during when my session was, because some of these are late at night

[00:31:59] because we're dealing with people in Japan, Tokyo, or in Korea and every different places.

[00:32:04] And I said to Bridget before I started, I said, look, I'm going to be doing a lot of highly

[00:32:10] emotional scenarios.

[00:32:11] I was going from like postpartum to sexual assault to suicidal ideation all in one session.

[00:32:19] And I was like, if you hear me crying, I'm not moaning Myrtle in the bathroom.

[00:32:24] I am just like, it's acting.

[00:32:28] I am fine.

[00:32:29] You know, because we do.

[00:32:31] We, you know, and like yesterday, the challenge was doing all six, which was totally doable,

[00:32:37] but switching for each one.

[00:32:39] And like one of them, I was so emotional.

[00:32:41] I was crying and my nose was running and I was like, I had to make sure I got all my tech

[00:32:45] taken care of first.

[00:32:47] And then I could blow my nose and wipe my eyes, you know, because otherwise like, ah.

[00:32:54] Well, it seems like technology gets a bad rap from some people.

[00:33:00] And what you guys are doing with it.

[00:33:05] It's just so amazing.

[00:33:07] I mean, I just have got to say that it's helping people.

[00:33:12] It's filling a gap.

[00:33:14] It's giving us all a way.

[00:33:18] It's giving our bodies a way to adjust so that when we are in that situation, we're able

[00:33:28] to better.

[00:33:29] There's no door slamming.

[00:33:31] It's like, let's handle this like adults with grace.

[00:33:37] Yeah.

[00:33:37] Well, I mean, and it's prepped with not only that it's a safe space, but that there's no

[00:33:42] right or wrong.

[00:33:43] And I, I think that is another beauty of it is that people take that to heart.

[00:33:50] And once they invest, they, they really feel it, you know?

[00:33:56] Well, ladies, I think, you know, is there anything else that we didn't cover that you would like

[00:34:01] to tell the listener and viewers about that we didn't get to?

[00:34:06] No, I think we covered everything.

[00:34:09] Yeah.

[00:34:10] I think the only thing I would say is that the military, the Air Force has like been the

[00:34:18] biggest client so far, but like Janine said, we're wanting to move into, you know, first

[00:34:23] responders, you know, hospital workers, anybody who's trauma responders, right?

[00:34:29] But also like education.

[00:34:31] How cool would it be for kids to be in school who are maybe being bullied to go to the library?

[00:34:37] Andrea and I have this dream of like having a, like a mentor that's sort of there.

[00:34:42] And even for the teachers, for somebody to like vent to, like just to almost have a place,

[00:34:48] but especially for those kids that feel a little disenfranchised, just to have someone to talk

[00:34:52] to about hobbies, about reasons to stay positive.

[00:34:57] Yeah.

[00:34:58] That's kind of our big goal.

[00:34:59] We'd love that.

[00:35:00] Yeah.

[00:35:00] And even like HR could be great.

[00:35:03] So we're, we're really looking to branch out to different people because I think it's,

[00:35:08] I think what Janine has created is so, it's so amazing, but I think it's, it's really inspiring

[00:35:15] to, to see it.

[00:35:16] I'm inspired not only because she's my friend, but to see a woman embrace, take herself seriously

[00:35:23] with a big dream, a big idea, make it happen and, you know, get work for her friends during

[00:35:32] 2020.

[00:35:32] That's good viable work.

[00:35:34] That's still happening in 2024 and growing and growing.

[00:35:37] And, but to me, it's very inspiring that she's providing something amazing for this world.

[00:35:46] And I just hope people take her up on it, you know?

[00:35:50] Thanks.

[00:35:51] Oh, I love it.

[00:35:53] That's marketing.

[00:35:53] That's my marketing gal.

[00:35:58] Mom, I'm not really crying.

[00:36:03] I mean, I am, but I'm not.

[00:36:06] Make your tea later.

[00:36:09] So how does, how does one get in touch with you?

[00:36:13] How do they follow you?

[00:36:14] How do they find you?

[00:36:15] So.

[00:36:16] We can share email.

[00:36:19] Am I allowed to do that for info at EIIEQ.com?

[00:36:24] That is the easiest way to get a hold.

[00:36:26] And we'll send out a little link for a demonstration so they can feel it in person.

[00:36:31] Cause it really is something that I think when they experience it, that's when they understand

[00:36:35] it.

[00:36:36] We'll put your website too, into the show notes and everything different ways.

[00:36:41] Okay.

[00:36:41] So before you go, I have to ask you both, what would you tell your 20 something self today?

[00:36:53] Oh, 20 something.

[00:36:54] Well, that's, that's a range of bad choices.

[00:36:58] Okay.

[00:36:58] Um, you know what I think it would be, and I probably wouldn't love listening to my,

[00:37:05] to myself cause I'm stubborn and who I am, but I never, I would always look at people

[00:37:11] that were successful or had achieved things.

[00:37:13] And I was like, look at that, look at them.

[00:37:15] And I never thought it could be me.

[00:37:17] I never believed that.

[00:37:20] And it can, it really can.

[00:37:25] And yeah, I just wish I'd, I, and I think it's just that, that love of self, right?

[00:37:30] That belief that you could do things.

[00:37:32] But I just remember being like, look at them achieving.

[00:37:34] You can't do that.

[00:37:35] And thinking that way.

[00:37:36] And I really wish I could have reversed that at a younger age and really, but you know what?

[00:37:41] I think it happens as it should, I think.

[00:37:42] And the timing happens the way it should when you're able, but yeah, that's mine.

[00:37:48] Just believe in yourself.

[00:37:49] You can do anything you put your mind to.

[00:37:51] Yeah.

[00:37:53] What's yours, Andrea?

[00:37:54] I have a couple.

[00:37:58] The first one that came to mind when I, I just laughed as soon as I saw that question.

[00:38:01] And I was like, oh, don't date them.

[00:38:04] Just don't.

[00:38:06] Just don't.

[00:38:08] And then I thought, okay, I got to give you a real quick answer.

[00:38:14] Don't date any of them.

[00:38:19] Yes.

[00:38:21] That's one.

[00:38:22] That was a first instinct.

[00:38:24] But my second one is more of just like a physical one is just like, don't stop working out.

[00:38:31] Just don't stop.

[00:38:33] But the philosophical one is I would have to really sit 20-year-old me down and just say, listen, kiddo.

[00:38:44] If you don't, like just do your best to find out how to love yourself sooner than later.

[00:38:51] Because if you keep going on the way you are, you're going to spend more than half of your life not loving yourself.

[00:38:58] And that's not the way life's supposed to be.

[00:39:00] Let's just get on it.

[00:39:04] Yeah.

[00:39:05] I think that would, that's a downer.

[00:39:07] Nice.

[00:39:07] Nice way to end it.

[00:39:10] You're welcome.

[00:39:13] Maybe I should rephrase the question.

[00:39:17] He asked a bunch of actors.

[00:39:20] So we're going to get deep here.

[00:39:22] Never ask actors a question.

[00:39:24] Love it though.

[00:39:26] What a fun.

[00:39:27] So love you guys.

[00:39:28] And thank you so much for coming.

[00:39:30] Thank you.

[00:39:30] And for, you know, playing with us a little bit and putting a demo into our episode.

[00:39:36] And I think it's just going to be an amazing episode.

[00:39:40] So thank you.

[00:39:41] Thank you.

[00:39:42] Thank you so much for making this happen.

[00:39:44] We really appreciate it.

[00:39:46] Love you.

[00:39:46] Love you.

[00:39:49] Thank you for joining today.

[00:39:51] And we sure hope you enjoyed this episode.

[00:39:53] If you did, please leave a comment wherever you listen to your podcasts, tell a friend about us, or join our public Facebook group, Girl Take the Lead, or visit our website, girltaketheleadpod.com.

[00:40:06] We also have a YouTube channel where your subscription would be appreciated once you're on YouTube search at Girl Take the Lead.

[00:40:14] And we've recently expanded to YouTube Music, where you can find a video of this episode.

[00:40:20] And you really should see the video so you see the demonstration.

[00:40:24] Here are three takeaways from our episode.

[00:40:27] One, a demonstration really helps put yourself in the role.

[00:40:32] And you will find yourself, just like me, suspending disbelief.

[00:40:38] The technology allows one to practice and do a dress rehearsal so the body can be relaxed during what can be a difficult conversation.

[00:40:48] Two, avatar-led technology is different than role-playing.

[00:40:53] Because of the vulnerability involved in one-on-one conversations and role-play, it can have unintended consequences.

[00:41:02] While avatar-led training allows individual practice and results and complete buy-in by the participant.

[00:41:10] Three, the avatar provides a safe space and there's no right or wrong.

[00:41:18] And it allows participants to reveal their personal stories that they're naturally open to in life for their own self-discovery.

[00:41:28] Our next couple episodes will cover political anxiety.

[00:41:35] Could you possibly be experiencing some of that as the election approaches?

[00:41:42] And we'll go to some authors to help us out, including Rick Hansen, author of the book, Resilient, How to Grow an Unshakeable Core of Calm, Strength and Happiness.

[00:41:53] Amy Chua, author of Political Tribes, Group Instinct and the Fate of Nations.

[00:42:01] And Dr. Drew Weston, author of The Political Brain, The Role of Emotion in Deciding the Fate of the Nation.

[00:42:10] I know that there will be plenty we will learn from that episode.

[00:42:15] And this will be part one will be the pre-election and part two will be post-election.

[00:42:23] So please join us again, no matter what your party affiliation is or what outcome you're hoping for.

[00:42:32] Talk to you soon.

[00:42:33] Bye.

[00:42:34] Bye.