183. Flying High: Jane Dyer’s Journey of Fearlessness in the Face of Sexism

[00:00:05] [SPEAKER_01]: Episode 183, Yolanda Canny

[00:00:35] [SPEAKER_01]: Jane Dyers Journey of Fearlessness in the Face of Sexism

[00:01:05] [SPEAKER_01]: and instructed in the T-37, a primary trainer for the Air Force. She retired from flying in 2017 as a Boeing 777 captain. She amassed over 10,000 accident free hours at FedEx. Prior to the B777, she was the captain of the Airbus 300 and the Boeing 727.

[00:01:33] [SPEAKER_01]: In addition to talking about sexism, we covered all kinds of topics including taking the time to find confidence over nervousness, self-inflicted stress, a dad's unconditional support and love, women empowering other women, the importance of voting, and selecting people to be on our team.

[00:02:00] [SPEAKER_01]: Enjoy the lesson. There you go.

[00:02:06] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, hi Jane. Welcome to Girl, Take the Lead and I'm so excited for our listeners to hear your very inspiring story. And you are truly a girl taking the lead and such a fearless leader. So thank you for being here.

[00:02:22] [SPEAKER_00]: Yolanda, thank you for having me. I'm looking forward to it.

[00:02:24] [SPEAKER_01]: Great. Now, let's start by just giving them a little background about your story. So that would be great.

[00:02:33] [SPEAKER_00]: Sure. I'm a girl from Easley, South Carolina, a little rural town who ended up being one of the few Boeing 777 captains in the world and I find that to be remarkable.

[00:02:49] [SPEAKER_00]: I started out here. I'm one of eight children. My dad was a true advocate of education for everybody. So as we were growing up, my sisters and brothers and myself in the 60s and 70s in high school, we all had to take the hardest math and science we could, which turned out to be a great thing.

[00:03:10] [SPEAKER_00]: In the summer when I graduated from high school or the winter in 75, my dad came home my senior year and asked me if I would like to go to the United States Air Force Academy. And I said, what is the United States Air Force Academy?

[00:03:25] [SPEAKER_00]: He said, well, it's a school in Colorado, 4,000 perfect gentlemen is beautiful and is free. I thought, well, I'll go through the process. I'll fill out all the paperwork and I'll let him know that I did what I could and they will never ever take me.

[00:03:42] [SPEAKER_00]: 157 women from across America, they're not going to take me.

[00:03:46] [SPEAKER_01]: Right, right.

[00:03:47] [SPEAKER_00]: Go ahead.

[00:03:48] [SPEAKER_00]: I was just saying that was like 1980.

[00:03:51] [SPEAKER_00]: We were in the first class of 80. So we showed up. I showed up June the 26th of 1976. And it was coming from a little town in South Carolina, the idea that people hated you. They hated you and didn't know you. But you were in a place you should not be.

[00:04:10] [SPEAKER_00]: And obviously you took their friend's place. You were obviously totally unqualified and there's no way you could ever do what you were asked to do.

[00:04:21] [SPEAKER_00]: So it was quite interesting. There were some to me very hysterical parts of it.

[00:04:26] [SPEAKER_00]: That's me. I see things differently.

[00:04:28] [SPEAKER_00]: So anyway, I went out there for a year and a half and I will say during that first year I got to fly in a little twin engine jet airplane. And it was, oh my gosh, the guy said our job is to get as close to these clouds as we can without touching them.

[00:04:45] [SPEAKER_00]: So my very first flight loops and rolls and I was hooked like this is awesome and they pay you to do it.

[00:04:52] [SPEAKER_00]: So I did that. It was wonderful.

[00:04:57] [SPEAKER_00]: The true part of the story is I fell madly in love with the guy out there. He broke my heart. I did not ever want to be there again.

[00:05:03] [SPEAKER_00]: So I did leave. I stayed through the first two summers, which were the not so very fun parts. And I did all that hard part.

[00:05:12] [SPEAKER_00]: I transferred to Clemson University and got was the first female commander of Air Force ROTC and the first female to be selected to go to Air Force pilot training from Clemson.

[00:05:24] [SPEAKER_00]: And I graduated from Clemson in 1981. So that was all, you know, a childhood that doors open that I never ever would have dreamed of being a female from South Carolina.

[00:05:37] [SPEAKER_00]: And I used to not tell that first part about going to the Academy because people assume well you couldn't pass the grades. You can do that. Well, I did all that stuff. I have a degree in mechanical engineering.

[00:05:48] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not a dummy. So I put all that.

[00:05:51] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. Well, in the book you talk a little bit too about the goals that faced you when you first got there. I think that's like having that in writing.

[00:06:04] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I always felt it kind of without people making it so clear that it wasn't to belong. But you got to tell that story.

[00:06:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. So I graduated from Clemson, went to pilot training in Del Rio, Texas at Laughlin Air Force Base in the class of 8205.

[00:06:27] [SPEAKER_00]: There were quite a few of my peers who were from Texas A&M who had been in the Corps. So they were hardcore about women not being there.

[00:06:36] [SPEAKER_00]: So my class had to come up with five goals for our class objectives. And so they decided that one of our five goals should be that we should graduate with no women in the class.

[00:06:49] [SPEAKER_00]: I was the only woman in the class.

[00:06:57] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I think, you know, because you and I were probably coming up about the same time because in 1978 is when I went into my first job after getting my MBA.

[00:07:12] [SPEAKER_01]: Right. And I mean, it was very clear. I got there by affirmative action. But it was very clear to me that I didn't belong with the guys in the suits and, you know, I quickly and not quickly after three years, I decided to make a different path and go and do something different.

[00:07:35] [SPEAKER_01]: And it sounds like, you know, you had your path to that just kind of took a little bit of different but it is you can either have that be so explicit the way it was for you.

[00:07:48] [SPEAKER_01]: Or it's, you know, hidden and it's, you know, you know, it's there. And no one's direct about it.

[00:07:56] [SPEAKER_01]: But people act that way towards you.

[00:07:59] [SPEAKER_01]: So kudos for you to hang in there.

[00:08:02] [SPEAKER_00]: I'll see later in my career after I was in the Air Force.

[00:08:06] [SPEAKER_00]: And I will say it was always that way I was fortunate to get to teach brand new pilots in the Air Force and so I was working with a lot of young guys who are instructor pilots. Oh my gosh, they were wonderful and to teach people who wanted to learn to fly who had wanted to do this forever.

[00:08:21] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, they were great. So that was a good part of the Air Force.

[00:08:25] [SPEAKER_00]: And then I went to bed X and as you were saying, you know, by that time they could not blatantly come out and say we don't want you here.

[00:08:34] [SPEAKER_00]: But there was time after time after time that they made it very obvious. Yeah. Well, I love to that when you were.

[00:08:41] [SPEAKER_01]: What did you call it? I forget the number that the number flight. It was your last chance to stay.

[00:08:50] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, you have to tell that story about calling on your spirit training. I'm finally there. I'm the only female in my class. There are no mentors because they didn't let women go into the Air Force be pilots in the military until 1978.

[00:09:06] [SPEAKER_00]: So they started in 78. I started in 81. It was a relatively new thing and I was the only female so I nobody to talk to no mentors, no nothing.

[00:09:18] [SPEAKER_00]: And I was very anxious, you know, as I got closer and closer to soloing, which is the big deal.

[00:09:24] [SPEAKER_00]: They throw you in the airplane and off you go by yourself. I got more and more anxious.

[00:09:28] [SPEAKER_00]: And so I go on there for some reason they call them 87, 88 and 89 rides your last three chances on my 88 ride. I went with a major and after we landed he said you are the most nervous person I have ever flown with.

[00:09:42] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm thinking oh this is not good.

[00:09:45] [SPEAKER_00]: And so that night I just fixed myself a nice dinner, got a glass of wine, got a good night's sleep and said you know what if this is the way it's supposed to be it'll be and if it's not it won't.

[00:09:56] [SPEAKER_00]: And so I went and flew the Colonel and we had a great flight he said that was great. He goes that's one of the most perfect flights I've ever been on. So I was just going calm down.

[00:10:08] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, have faith in yourself.

[00:10:11] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, take your time.

[00:10:13] [SPEAKER_00]: The, you know, I felt like the whole Air Force was going to decide if women could continue to be pilots based on my performance so I kind of did that self-inflicted self-inflicted stress.

[00:10:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:10:27] [SPEAKER_01]: Well you, you know in a lot of ways you didn't realize what was coming behind you and all of the people you were opening the door for and you were proving a lot of other people wrong.

[00:10:40] [SPEAKER_01]: But you also called on your dad didn't you during that time to kind of inspire you?

[00:10:46] [SPEAKER_00]: Well yeah my dad was always there. I will say that one of the big things when I decided to leave the Air Force Academy is that I had friends whose parents told them not to come home because it had been such a big thing and all the newspapers and all that kind of stuff.

[00:11:00] [SPEAKER_00]: And my dad to his, he was a big man and he was a tough guy and I was concerned telling him that and he goes you know what we only want you to be happy.

[00:11:10] [SPEAKER_00]: But he never, he could not have supported me more in everything I did and I thanks to him and of course my mom sweet as she could be but she was in the day of you know her job was to raise the kids and take care of the house.

[00:11:23] [SPEAKER_00]: She was a great kid thank goodness.

[00:11:26] [SPEAKER_01]: I think even I had similar dads. My dad's perhaps not as tall but he was strong as a, well he was a Marine.

[00:11:33] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh my goodness.

[00:11:34] [SPEAKER_00]: I know what that means.

[00:11:37] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and he was a job as as a Marine, and he was, he was just amazing always had my back so I appreciate what you're saying about your dad.

[00:11:47] [SPEAKER_01]: So, so what brought you to be part of this book, because it's just so, so amazing to hear us and read about all your stories.

[00:11:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, it's a great book I'm fortunate to know Kathy and have known her for a while. I think your connection that was you encouraged her to go to the UK and so we met and she had some friends from the UK.

[00:12:09] [SPEAKER_00]: And so we took them all flying in our little airplane so Kathy's in road with me and you know, I'm sure you have found in your life women you just connect to, you know, they have the strength, they have the vision, they have the goal of empowering other women

[00:12:25] [SPEAKER_00]: to keep us moving forward and to try to stop this path of moving us backwards, and how important it is for us to be more educated and to work together and set goals for women coming behind us.

[00:12:39] [SPEAKER_00]: So I bet Kathy and she and I just instantly connected and she's a great writer and a great friend and a wonderful person.

[00:12:45] [SPEAKER_01]: And she did a great job just putting all your stories so well into the book and finding different parts of them so yours definitely about sexism.

[00:13:00] [SPEAKER_01]: Do you do you think it's still as bad as it was back in the 80s.

[00:13:08] [SPEAKER_00]: Well I hate to say that I think currently.

[00:13:13] [SPEAKER_00]: It reaches peak and we're going down. I think that people say things now that they would not have said five or 10 years ago. I think the thought process now I mean, women do not have the right to decide how they're going to use their own bodies.

[00:13:32] [SPEAKER_00]: We're in a place that one of the things they bring out the women need to do is vote.

[00:13:37] [SPEAKER_00]: Think about it, I'm from the state of South Carolina.

[00:13:40] [SPEAKER_00]: We have two US senators that make votes that will affect you.

[00:13:45] [SPEAKER_00]: We have two men who have never been married, have no children.

[00:13:49] [SPEAKER_00]: And they're good they have more say about us and our health care than our doctors do.

[00:13:54] [SPEAKER_00]: So women have to vote. They need to be educated. They need to know what's on the line.

[00:14:02] [SPEAKER_00]: I have wonderful daughter-in-laws so I kind of keep up with what's going on and not them themselves but to hear and be in touch with some young women today, thank goodness, live in a world where their world is equal or maybe even predominantly women, which is wonderful.

[00:14:24] [SPEAKER_00]: And I think when they hear talk about birth control, they don't get that it was birth control that allowed women to have careers.

[00:14:37] [SPEAKER_00]: That's the bottom line. And if you have birth control, you are not going to have a career.

[00:14:42] [SPEAKER_00]: And so not only women but men who support them as you well know there are lots of men like my husband who are we all have talents and gifts and we all should be given the ability to use them.

[00:14:53] [SPEAKER_00]: So the idea of voting, being educated and I would say especially if you don't get or if you know a young person who doesn't understand the importance of women having their own choices for health care.

[00:15:08] [SPEAKER_00]: And the idea that people say well they'll never get rid of birth control. Well there are a lot of things we said they'd never get rid of so for women to be leaders and that's my concern about moving backwards is this very strong conversation and actions taken in many states.

[00:15:23] [SPEAKER_00]: That hindered the progress of women. So basically that hinders the progress of companies and businesses and the government in America, it hinders the success of America, so it hinders the success of the world and our future for everybody.

[00:15:42] [SPEAKER_00]: This is very serious voting is extremely serious.

[00:15:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think it's great that you've made the connection for people that it we didn't as boomers achieve without.

[00:16:02] [SPEAKER_01]: We couldn't have done it without birth control and without Roe v Wade and affirmative action, it just didn't happen.

[00:16:10] [SPEAKER_00]: And it had to be laws like there was a law passed that said women could be pilots in the military.

[00:16:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Sylvia was one of the stories there was a law passed that she championed that women could be in rotary clubs.

[00:16:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Somebody just one day wake up and say oh I'm gonna let y'all do this. It was a hard fought battle, and we know today if some things things went to the high court.

[00:16:33] [SPEAKER_00]: It would be a different ruling probably. Yeah, voting is very important.

[00:16:40] [SPEAKER_01]: Well I think that's probably a good message to pass on to our younger generations. I'm wondering what would you tell your 20 something self today.

[00:16:51] [SPEAKER_00]: To have faith in myself. I think even as a pilot all those years later.

[00:17:00] [SPEAKER_00]: The people edit, whereas looking back turns out that the people who are the most vocal the people who are the most negative the people that harass you not maybe directly but inferring that you don't know what you're doing they don't trust your decisions they don't have confidence in you.

[00:17:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Of course turned out to be the people who are the least confident themselves, and probably maybe the least capable. But when people keep digging and digging and digging is easy for you to start losing your own confidence.

[00:17:30] [SPEAKER_00]: And so I would say to my 20 year old say so when those times come, have faith in yourself.

[00:17:39] [SPEAKER_01]: Confidence I love that part of your story.

[00:17:42] [SPEAKER_01]: That was what you had to kind of get to again.

[00:17:47] [SPEAKER_01]: You know that that connection between kind of who you are, your own self esteem your own self worth and having confidence and who that person is. I thought that was just just priceless in the book I really got that.

[00:18:05] [SPEAKER_01]: So, thank you so much for your service and for your boldness and your courage.

[00:18:18] [SPEAKER_01]: And for this conversation, it was just wonderful Jane.

[00:18:22] [SPEAKER_01]: Is there anything that we missed that you'd like to cover.

[00:18:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Well I would say that I think successful women one thing they do bring in the book to you surround and you pick partners and friends who support your success.

[00:18:35] [SPEAKER_00]: And I will tell you there is not a man on earth. He's, he's 82 now he's a little bit older than me, but has always our entire life we're a team, and we work together, and we support each other and he has been by my side and supported me the whole way.

[00:18:51] [SPEAKER_00]: So, I think it's so easy to think women think this and men think that but I am so thankful for the millions of men out there who have supported still support and will support women in fulfilling their, their capabilities their dreams.

[00:19:08] [SPEAKER_00]: I think that's so important. I do too.

[00:19:12] [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for the supportive men.

[00:19:17] [SPEAKER_01]: All right, Jane. Well thank you again for joining us.

[00:19:20] [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you, Elena so nice to talk to you and meet you.

[00:19:25] [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for listening today and we sure hope you enjoyed this episode. If you did, please leave a comment wherever you listen to your podcasts.

[00:19:34] [SPEAKER_01]: Tell a friend about us, or join our public Facebook group girl take the lead. We also have a YouTube channel where your subscription would be appreciated.

[00:19:44] [SPEAKER_01]: Once you're on YouTube search at girl take the lead.

[00:19:46] [SPEAKER_01]: And we recently expanded into YouTube music where you can see a video of this episode.

[00:19:55] [SPEAKER_01]: You can also check out our new store on our website, girl take the lead pod.com slash shop and plan to return to it as well update our products monthly.

[00:20:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Here are three takeaways from our episode today.

[00:20:14] [SPEAKER_01]: One.

[00:20:16] [SPEAKER_01]: We will all face the naysayers in our life.

[00:20:21] [SPEAKER_01]: It may take us time to dig deep to find that part of us where fearlessness is born to Jane success during the 1980s, led the way for so many future female pilots.

[00:20:39] [SPEAKER_01]: We can be grateful to her and to women like her that led the way for us.

[00:20:45] [SPEAKER_01]: Three.

[00:20:46] [SPEAKER_01]: We can all lack confidence at times, but we can remind ourselves like Jane did that we can do things, even when we're afraid, because we can breathe in the support of those who believe we can our next episode will continue to share another fearless

[00:21:09] [SPEAKER_01]: story.

[00:21:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Our theme for August.

[00:21:12] [SPEAKER_01]: Please join us again.

[00:21:14] [SPEAKER_01]: And thanks for being here.

[00:21:16] [SPEAKER_01]: Talk to you soon.

[00:21:18] [SPEAKER_01]: Bye.