172. Brandy Melville to Facebook: Cultish Traits in Popular Culture – Insights from 'Cultish', Amanda Montell’s book.

[00:00:00] Welcome to episode 172 of Girl, Take the Lead, where each week we explore womanhood and leadership. And I'm your host, Yolanda Canny. Today, the girls are back to join me in discussing cults, a topic we all may hate to admit having some fascination with. First, a bit about cults.

[00:00:31] The exact number of cults in the world is difficult to determine, but estimates range from thousands to millions. Psychologist Steve Eichler estimates that there are up to 10,000 cults in the United States, but most operate under the radar. Eichler is known primarily for his work on

[00:00:56] destructive cults, coercive persuasion, mind control, brainwashing and de-programming. In the United Kingdom, estimates range from 500 to 2,000 cults, with memberships ranging from under 10 people to thousands. In India, there are approximately 9,000 cults. Perhaps we find ourselves asking, how can someone abandon their previous identity and adopt a group think?

[00:01:33] Maybe it's about providing a sense of belonging or connection we all seek. Maybe they're attractive because they offer structure in a world with way too many options. Or maybe it's a response to

[00:01:49] things we can't control like climate change, war or injustices. Or maybe as we've discussed in our previous episode, it's a response to isolation. Whatever the reason, it's good to take a closer

[00:02:05] look at this topic with a little help from a book which the girls and I will share with you. And perhaps after listening, you'll start asking yourself the question, kind of like me, is this group I belong to a little cultish? Enjoy the listen and here you go.

[00:02:28] So girls, welcome back to Girl Take Bleed. Girls are in the house. Hey mom, hello. So great, I always get so excited. I just so value your time and coming on the show. And

[00:02:44] and boy, this talk is going to be a good one I think. And why don't you just introduce yourselves real quickly to the audience so they get used to your voices? Yep, I'm Emma. I'm the millennial daughter. And I'm also a low-key cult, not admirer. I'm

[00:03:03] an I'm an interested student of what cults are about. I think that's the best way to describe it. And a true crime fanatic. I am a true crime fanatic. Yep, hello. And hi,

[00:03:16] I'm Kiki. I am the Jen's year, she her pronouns. And I also love a good true crime moment. It's kind of a running joke that we all watch daylight while falling asleep. So it's kind

[00:03:31] of second nature to this family to enjoy talking about true crime and, you know, cults here and there. So I'm a little bit of an office when it comes to that. So I'm excited

[00:03:43] to talk about our topic, mom. Yeah, great. Also my pronouns are she her. I forgot to say her mine. Emma, I think you're the one who introduced the book to me and said, oh, mom, I think this

[00:03:57] would be a good one for the podcast. So and we should probably just repeat that the book is called cult ish the language of fanaticism by Amanda Montell. And oh, we should also mention that Amanda

[00:04:12] has her own podcast. Yes, which I'm an avid admirer of the podcast is called sounds like a cult. She kind of looks at like different aspects aspects of this like guys to like, you know,

[00:04:25] the cult of Lulu lemon the culture trader Joe's and kind of evaluates them on like how scary of a cult are they like, should we worry about it? Or is it just like, you know, it's fine.

[00:04:35] You know, it's not super scary. But I listened to the book on audio book read like a couple months ago. So I finally actually listened to the book cult ish. And I thought it was just so interesting

[00:04:48] because like the first half she talks about like actual I think what we would call actual cults like, you know, Heaven's Gate, you know, Manson family, like those kind of branch Davidian,

[00:05:00] I think is in there. Yeah. Her dad was in a cult. So she talks about that as well. Like, and I think that one is called the Synanon. Yes, Synanon. Yeah, it was in the Bay Area. Yeah.

[00:05:11] So like, she was talking about that. And then in the second half, she kind of talks about how, you know, people like businesses and such in the modern day also kind of

[00:05:21] implement like the same sort of like cultish language that like cults use to kind of indoctrinate people. So it was very interesting. And I thought, you know, like this kind of overlaps with like,

[00:05:31] you know, business, like general societal stuff. I thought I thought that's why I recommended it. Yeah, I thought well, and if you check her background out, she's her degree was in linguistics. Yeah, right? So she's going to tune into language. I think one of her first points

[00:05:57] is that language is probably the first thing that gets adopted into cults. And it's the last thing to leave because it doesn't require much investment in order to sound like you belong

[00:06:13] just because you're picking up the lingo and you've, you know, you have your secret kind of words and meaning for things. I thought that we could look at almost anything in a group,

[00:06:32] right? And go, oh, well, we invent our own words and we have our own meaning to them. And you know, I can just think remember you guys in middle school, you know, that's,

[00:06:42] you know, you'd come up with these words and I'd go, what are you saying? But they had a meaning. Right? So I thought it was really interesting that she talks first about the words and the language around cults and how you can get sucked in very easily to

[00:07:06] belong by just even just using some of those language and some of those words. And I think she talks about things like being cultish, right? Because it most of us think of

[00:07:24] cults as kind of a black and white thing, a good or a bad thing. And she kind of has different views on that. You want to talk a little bit about that? Yeah, kind of like you're going to go into your point about kind of using like

[00:07:44] the right language, the right language or right words to kind of signal like that I'm in the in-crowd, like working at certain like she uses the example I think of Lululemon, like working at Lululemon, there's like different terms that they have for like different things that

[00:08:02] like it goes beyond just like normal retail lingo. And it really like, and especially like the way that like the corporate language kind of changes it like it's corporate in like informing this like societal trend, like in this little mini society of Lululemon. And it also kind of

[00:08:22] using their lingo to kind of like show that you fit in is also giving power and agency to the corporation of Lululemon and the brand of Lululemon. And like kind of being like I want to be

[00:08:34] in the in-crowd. So it's kind of like, you know, the words are part of it, like the words have a lot more power than I think people would give credit to. So like, it's not necessarily like

[00:08:46] using the words like Lululemon are good or bad. But by using the words, you are recognizing and acknowledging that there's power in like using the words intentionally. And there's like intention behind like why you're using the words. And as a result and as a consequence, you're elevating

[00:09:05] the brand, you're making it seem exclusive. And like as we all know from like hype culture, if it's exclusive, everybody wants to buy in it kind of is that supply and demand if they're

[00:09:14] scarce supply, the demand goes crazy. It's kind of a weird example of that. So yeah, like that's kind of contextually like one example I would think. Well, I think you also mentioned that I don't think maybe it was Yukee that said that there was a documentary about

[00:09:31] Brandy Melville on HBO or something or Max and I ended up watching that. And that was pretty scary to watch because to your point, Emma, there was the language but then they carried it through their entire organization. Right? Did you guys shop there? Did you feel

[00:09:57] that when you went there? No, I think, you know, Emma can probably agree with me on this. But I think with Brandy Melville was definitely a brand that catered to a specific kind of girl.

[00:10:11] And that was a type of girl that was seen in the creator's eyes as you know, quote the most like beautiful, you know, slender, really skinny like size zero, like not even a two.

[00:10:25] Yeah, maybe like too big. Too big. But it was a one size fits all but then they change it to one size fits most, you know, and or some or some. But I think they advertise it as

[00:10:38] one size fits most, you know, like it had this exclusivity to it. And if you fit in the clothes, you know, then you were, you know, you had value, you know, and that's very dangerous for

[00:10:56] young girls, you know, when you're going through that really vulnerable time in your life as a you know, teenager or even a preteen, you're really creating that sense of confidence and

[00:11:08] self worth and identity. And so it's a really messed up situation all around. But I think also the racism that was present in Brandy Melville as a cult is a culture and as a brand as well as

[00:11:20] something to acknowledge in their advertisements. No women, no girls of color like all white. And I do believe that there was something put out by, I'm not sure if it was the creator of Brandy Melville or just like a like regional director

[00:11:40] or something like that or a district manager. But you know, they came out and closed down a Brandy Melville store in Canada, I believe it was like Toronto because you know, too many girls,

[00:11:52] you know, of color were shopping there and too many girls of color were getting hired to be there, you know. So it's a very dangerous, you know, brand and just one that was profiting off of, you know, exclusivity and, you know, insecurity and just, you know,

[00:12:16] really bad things. But it was very interesting documentary. But yeah, definitely good example of them using that language and that, you know, if you fit into these clothes and this beauty standard, then you're the ideal girl, you're the ideal woman, you know. Yeah. Well,

[00:12:32] I think also too was taking advantage of girls at a very young age. And I mean, the documentary talked showed a lot of the women that were employed there and what they went through to work there. Yeah. Which also

[00:12:57] eked of control and, you know, just a bad situation all around, I think. Yeah, it also reminds me of Abercrombie and Fitch and kind of prior to their rebranding because, you know, I think Gen Z finally was like, we've had enough of this. Like we've had enough of

[00:13:18] the body shaming and the racism and all of this stuff happening. And we're not going to consume, you know, brands that promote this type of stuff. But with Abercrombie, I mean, they had models that would greet you at the door and Victoria's Secret too also had that

[00:13:40] thing. And I think we talked about it before, mom, where like, you know, I think in marketing, in your experience, like back then, you know, you saw this product and the supermodel with it and

[00:13:55] you were like, I know this isn't obtainable or I know this is like a reach, you know, but it's something that worked for that consumer at that time seeing, you know, someone that doesn't

[00:14:05] look like them. And, you know, but now it's very different. But yeah, so I was just going to mention to you that Abercrombie kind of had the same thing Victoria's Secret, the fashion show,

[00:14:17] same thing, you know, kind of that exclusivity if you look like this. And specifically with Abercrombie, I guess what I was going to mention is like, you know, teens would be shopping at

[00:14:26] that store and they would get approached and offered a job, you know, if they look a certain way and how that must, you know, make them feel like they have, you know, a sense of worth or

[00:14:38] something, you know, it's pretty insane that employees also had to go through some of those those things as well. Yeah, she mentions SoulCycle in the book. And you guys have had friends who have worked there and been involved in that. Do you think that it was pretty cultish?

[00:14:59] I think SoulCycle, especially in like the Bay Area, it's definitely cultish. Like, my friends that worked there, I don't think they would say it was a cult mostly because like

[00:15:11] they're the kind of person where it was like if it was cult, they'd be like, I'm not going to participate in that. Right off the bat. But I think a couple of your friends, I just can't

[00:15:21] see them. I just can't see them doing it. They're like, they don't buy into trends, they're kind of their own very independent people. I mean, cults can draw in anybody. I think that's

[00:15:31] the kind of the whole point that I think people forget. And especially because like cults want, like, you know, like Kiki was saying, like, cults want those perfect people, they're those resources, those people that look the right way, you know, as part of their brand

[00:15:50] or group or what have you. And like my friends fit that to a T because they were all athletes and, you know, it all worked for them. But I think SoulCycle is just, I think it's like the fact that

[00:16:02] like, because Amanda Montell does an episode on the cult SoulCycle. And I remember in that episode, she was talking about like how people will like center their lives around the SoulCycle classes

[00:16:13] that you have to like register for in advance, like a week in advance to get a spot. There's like the trainers that people follow and like love. And this is kind of the same with Peloton.

[00:16:24] And like, I think in those aspects, like when people center it in their lives, similar to like how people would do a belief system. I that's when it's kind of cultish. And I think

[00:16:34] in the Bay Area, it's very much kind of like, oh, like, you know, I'm going to SoulCycle, like, especially like with like flex remote workers working tech, especially it's like, I'm gonna go to my SoulCycle class, like on my lunch, I'll see you later, you know,

[00:16:47] I would say it's pretty cult. Same with like, I mean, but I think in the Bay Area, that's the same with like almost all like like bar classes, like core power yoga, like, all these like very like commercial, like luxurious, exclusive, like fitness brands,

[00:17:07] I think are all kind of culty in their own way. I'm not going to stop like paying for their services, but it is like I have to admit, like there is kind of a part of it, like even I used to have a

[00:17:20] equinox gym membership, which is like a very luxury gym. And mostly because it was the closest gym to us. And I was like, you know what, I'm making big girl money now, I'm going to get myself an equinox

[00:17:33] membership. And I've told Kiki this, like literally everybody in that gym, I hated working out there because everybody in that gym was so pretty, they were all rich, they were all really fit.

[00:17:43] And you're just there, like, I'm just there to, you know, like get my cardio of like, take care of my health. And these people are all just like, they're like, live, like working out for

[00:17:52] three hours, which like who has three hours to work out, you know, in one session. So it's like, in those aspects, it's like there's parts of it where it's like, there's the inherent exclusivity and like the inherent like, you know, you're better than you, sort of mentality.

[00:18:07] Well, that kind of leads to the culty. Well, one of the things that probably is good to mention is the checklist that Amanda gives us in the book and she talks about in her podcasts.

[00:18:22] And there's seven aspects to it. One, it has a charismatic leader. Two, there's indoctrination. Three, a group mentality. Four, control tactics. Five, us versus them mentality. Six, rituals and practices. And seven, financial exploitation. And she says that as you check off

[00:18:48] these things on the list, that one of the very lowest level of concern can be just live your life. Like in a lot of cases, we've given examples of people go, they live their life, they and they leave.

[00:19:04] But then she mentions these things can escalate to a second level, which is watch your back. So it kind of means like, I think to take that she was talking about people that can hurt you either emotionally or physically or even financially. And then the last, the highest

[00:19:31] level is get the F out. So I think as we look at these things, it's so good to be aware of different elements that are happening. And yeah, and some of them you might laugh at

[00:19:47] and you might, but then like, I remember one dinner we had and Emma, I think you were still working at Facebook and we had a guest over who was working at Facebook.

[00:20:00] And it was like there was a religion going on at the table as people were talking about Facebook. And it was like, oh boy, there is a real indoctrination that goes on there. Do you think so,

[00:20:15] Em? Yeah, I mean, I will be the first to say, I mean, I have to make a personal disclaimer that like the quality of life that I have now is great because I've worked at

[00:20:26] tech companies that might be a little bit fishy. There's no ethical consumption under capitalism and that goes for labor. But yeah, I mean, I think tech companies in general thrive off of this sort of like exclusive stuff like Asana, which is like a program management software,

[00:20:46] my friend who works there, she was telling me that they have a yoga room on the top floor of their building. And the founder made sure that they had a yoga room for him on the top floor.

[00:20:59] And it's like that weird sort of charismatic leader, I buck tradition, that sort of Maverick style like business person, you know, sort of mentality that thrives in Silicon Valley, I think just breeds. Elon Musk is a great example. It just breeds followers and the sort of

[00:21:19] social relationship. And at Facebook, I would agree. I mean, like, corporations are the number one cults, I think in a lot of ways, because like, you know, when you're working there, you're kind of like, they're trying to inspire you to work to make money for them.

[00:21:34] And so you kind of, I mean, I've at least I've, this is a personal opinion. This is not fact. But, you know, I personally believe that like, they are trying to convince you to like

[00:21:44] stay working there, because they do need you in some way to do your job as much as you need them. And but because you have this sort of power dynamic, it's are inherently very, like disjointed because like, you need them way more than they need you, you're replaceable.

[00:21:59] And so like, even though at Facebook, it was all very culty and stuff, it was, I was very aware because I was a contractor as well, whereas the other person at the dinner table was a full-time employee. As a contractor, I was very aware. I was like,

[00:22:12] I, there's all this weird lingo. I can be, I can fit in as much as I want. I can be as close to my manager, but I am extremely replaceable compared to like, there was already like, because like contractors have less accessibility and rights and wall rights,

[00:22:26] you know, they have less benefits and luxuries compared to like full-time employees. So you're already kind of like lower than the full-time employee. So maybe that's a good thing though. So that you can get the F out if you needed to.

[00:22:43] Oh yeah. I mean, Theranos is a great example of like a tech company cult gone wrong. Like the, for people who don't know, Theranos was a, is a, it was founded by Elizabeth Holmes is a, it was a failed startup that claimed to be able

[00:23:01] to do blood testing to see if you had like cancers, Alzheimer's. It was like very, very like big. It was very like, you know, it was going to change the world. And then it, you know,

[00:23:13] spectacularly went down in flames. But like she tried to embody this like charismatic leader, you know, that Jeff Bezos and like, Steve Jobs had, and she was kind of implementing that. And like, it went terribly wrong. So like, it could happen.

[00:23:31] Yeah. But then I think things happen like layoffs, right? They kind of wake you up and go, oh yeah, this isn't, this is not necessarily a place that's going to take care of me or, you know, it's a place where you can leave at will.

[00:23:53] So, so probably on the, on the scale, it would be, you know, live your life, like, yeah, live your life. Just leave if you need to stay if you want. But I'm wondering if there are,

[00:24:08] well, one of the things that she's talked about too is podcasts being cultish. Like, I don't see it, right? Oh, mom, let me introduce you to a man called Joe Rogan. Yes. I guess you have to have like 10 million views per episode to kind of qualify.

[00:24:32] Yes, but also share some, some certain ideals, you know, that Joe Rogan. Yeah. And gosh, I like Andrew Tate. Like, when I think of like, culty podcast folks, I think of those guys. Yeah, I don't think a girl take the lead as being very cultish.

[00:24:51] We're certainly not intending to be. I don't think so, you know, I, I looked at that and I went, podcasting. I don't quite see it, but you're right. And probably some of the followers on

[00:25:07] The True Crime episodes and things might feel like there's certain kind of membership and ownership of it. Oh yeah, like my, I'm one of my favorite podcasts is Small Town Murder.

[00:25:24] And I've listened to it since like, I think the, at the actual beginning, which I think it's been like 10-ish years. Yeah. I had a whole different career back then, goodness. But their fan base is like very strong, very powerful committed. They will like drive hours

[00:25:41] to go see a live show in a different state. Like they, like they're people donate to them all the time so they can keep the podcast going because it's just two comedians like doing this, like

[00:25:51] and doing a bunch of other podcasts as well. It's like, I can totally see it. I think there's something about also about like, there's the cult of true crime, which again, Amanda Montel does

[00:26:00] a really great episode on. There is a certain weirdness. Like, you know, it's kind of one of those things where it's like within reason, I think it's okay to be like very interested

[00:26:09] in true crime, kind of try and understand it, be mystified by the mystery. And then there's people who are like, you know, go above and beyond to try and solve crimes like on their own. And it's like,

[00:26:20] you know, I think it kind of dies after a while, but I think, you know, it is a very much like, you know, live your life. Yeah. That's just what I think. So she, what I do like about

[00:26:34] what she does though, is it does bring us to be a certain observer? Like when she talks about even the army and the cult of being in like, being an army wife. And wow, that was a good episode. I hope

[00:26:51] I'll link to that in the show notes for people. Because that one was like, whoa, there is such a sense of rigor and, and, you know, belonging that you've got to conform to.

[00:27:05] Yeah. And it's, I think it's also one of the other things I think she brings up in general on her podcast that like she fun, like it kind of adds to the cultiness kind of kind of circle back.

[00:27:16] It's like when we talk about like exit costs, like in a cult, it's like, can you leave the cult without severe repercussions? I think in social, I'm going to say like social

[00:27:26] cults, you know, just to lack a better term, like for social cults like Lulu, that means so like, well, like if you leave and you lose all your friends, all your friends, because all your friends were

[00:27:38] also doing social cycle and they won't talk to you because you don't do social cycle anymore, because you got injured. You can't like, you can't do it anymore or whatever. I mean, that's pretty

[00:27:47] culty, right? Like it's kind of the same sort of, if we kind of compare it to that like exit cost criteria. Pretty scary. Yeah. I was going to mention to Lulu or Lula Rao,

[00:28:01] doesn't have a very severe exit cost. I don't know if you've heard about that, Mom. No, I would talk a little bit about that, P. So Lula Rao was basically a multi-level marketing scheme where, you know,

[00:28:20] basically it was well known for selling like leggings and clothes. So they sold clothes. But basically how it would go is that people would buy their inventory and then sell it. The more

[00:28:34] that you bought, I think the more, you had to buy a certain amount per month. Yeah. And you got bonuses if you recruited people for your team. And definitely for period of time, it was a very successful business. And then at some point, the quality declined because there

[00:28:56] were making so many leggings and not storing them properly. So they were storing them like outside in California heat. And as we all know, it's very hot. And so the moisture would get trapped,

[00:29:08] they would get moldy, they would get mildew and it was just kind of gross. So the reputation of the brand started to decline and the quality of clothes started to decline. And people were starting to leave the MLM. And I was mentioning the exit cost being really severe

[00:29:32] because basically if you left, the business or the colt, like definitely coltish Lula Rao was because these girls or these women that you're doing this with are supposed to be like your sisters and just be like super tight and making friends for life. They had conferences, cruises,

[00:29:52] like, and they wanted you to live a very lavish lifestyle buying cars, having nice homes to show people what you could do if you joined the brand. But right when you left, those people turned on you. And there's a really great bystocking memory about some different stories of

[00:30:10] women who have gone through that and just how they were kind of silenced and just kind of pushed way by the people that thought that they made friends for life with. So it's very interesting.

[00:30:26] Hulu made a documentary, right? Was it Hulu or was it Amazon? There was a really good Lula Rao documentary. I think there's a couple but vice is a really good one. We'll find the link

[00:30:38] to it so we can give it to our listeners. Yeah. You know, I just put up an episode about my sorority and getting back together with our friends after 50 years and it was so cool, right?

[00:30:52] Because we all, but you know, if you think about a sorority, there are definitely rituals. There are definite, there's a definite language that you learn when you're in kind of a

[00:31:03] sorority. There can be a them versus us mentality. I know it sometimes if someone wasn't in a fraternity, you didn't date them. It was like you were supposed to only date certain people. Our house never followed that rule but there were definitely things for other,

[00:31:26] I could see in the sorority system that happened and it did have a bit of cultish vibe to it. Same with me. I mean, I also joined a sorority and like, I mean we were at a liberal arts college

[00:31:42] so like I wouldn't go, I wouldn't imagine those like rush videos you see on TikTok. It was very, very low key but like even then I think like it wasn't so much like people I was dating but

[00:31:54] it was like people I was friends with because like I made friends freshman, you at my school, you could only rush second semester freshman year. You couldn't do first semester. So like a bunch

[00:32:03] friends I made for a semester like at college like we're very cool. They're from a bunch of different like walks of life, different friend groups and I just remember like after rushing and joining

[00:32:14] like I'm like I would hang out with them like at lunch. Like if I see it saw them I'd be like hi can I hang out with you? You know and like I would get like judged hardcore for that and

[00:32:22] I'm literally just like dude like they're my friends. Like you want us to be so, I think it's like when they kind of preach but they don't practice. Yeah. Like they're like oh like you

[00:32:32] want to be friend, you want to be social with everybody, you want to be outgoing, friendly, because like for us it was like not to kind of give the sorority its name away but the moral was like our philanthropy message was like you know to uplift confidence among

[00:32:48] young women and I'm like I'm doing that just by being friends with them and like saying like hey hope you have a good day. And like you know if they're saying I can only do that to some people

[00:32:57] that goes like that's what you're telling me to do so I mean it was all kind of creepy. I mean like me and my sorority sister friends that were still really good friends to this day

[00:33:06] like we all joke being like oh my god it was such a cult. Well at the time it probably served a purpose but I think when I look back on it now it definitely had its vibes about that

[00:33:20] but it also was something you could leave anytime. You didn't have a real strong economic loss so probably lost all your friends if you left so there is that there's a social maybe something like a middle ground between like that.

[00:33:38] The two points that she had one was live your life and the other one was watch your back so maybe sororities can be in between those because I don't think it's extreme enough to

[00:33:51] well there probably are examples right? There are yeah like where people have died. Yeah I'm thinking like I think Alabama sororities were under heat I think recently because like they can be also

[00:34:03] like it's like a perfect like melting pot for racism, sexism like all those stuff like when it gets into that like you can't help but say like dude I think this is kind of culty

[00:34:16] but I think it really does depend where which school you're at. Yeah it could be any sorority but you know if you're like at my liberal arts college I'd say like you know it's very much

[00:34:27] like a live your life like you'll live if you're not a part of it but it's also like if you leave there's still social consequence and like you know I know at bigger schools my friends

[00:34:40] were in sororities at bigger schools they would literally make you wear the same outfit and like tell you what outfit to wear for like rush or for like recruitment and they would force

[00:34:51] you to pay like a thousand dollars or a whole new wardrobe just to be at recruitment when you're already in the sorority so like it's very much kind of like you know it really depends on

[00:35:02] where you're at. Exactly see what you missed Key by not being in there. Yeah thank god I kind of worked out because at my school like I wanted to try and get into a sorority um I guess my sign-up just

[00:35:15] didn't go through and I didn't get notified of anything so it all worked out though I probably I ended up just fine. Certainly did. I have good grades good friends like it all worked out.

[00:35:29] There was um I another good question I think she brings up in the book is why are people looking for cults now you know like what is it and she mentioned you know that something about

[00:35:43] religion declining religion and people are not feeling connected and attached to the group think you know of that religion used to hold for people um what do you guys think about that I mean what

[00:35:59] what do you think because I mean this whole month I've been doing episodes about connection and how we are just starved for connection maybe that that's at the heart of it. I think yeah and I

[00:36:16] think you know Kiki can definitely like you know go hold on let me find the words Kiki can build on what I'm saying but I think especially for millennials I'll say I'll speak

[00:36:31] for the millennials and the millennials that I particularly know. I think a lot of us like we we grew up with like religion I think for the most majority of it but I think we found that like at

[00:36:42] least the religions that we grew up with like and speaking for myself like you know mommy raised us Catholic which I think in hindsight I'm glad you did because it gave us it gave us a good

[00:36:53] moral compass but I think as I got older and I kind of looked at like who I was as a person and like you know I was kind of looking at like what I like cared about and at that point it was like

[00:37:06] I had a lot of friends who were part of the LGBTQ plus community and like I really like my best friend is inter like is intersex like you know they weren't intersex at that they didn't realize

[00:37:18] that there were intersex at the time but like you know they were they were queer from day one and you know thinking about that and like trying to reconcile that with my religion it was like

[00:37:29] there's something not fitting and I think especially like the vibe that I got from like some of the Catholicism that I that I internalized and it was just a personal experience just contextualizing

[00:37:40] it for people out there. I found out like it was just like there was no place for women like if I wanted to volunteer there was like only a certain way I could do that like you know

[00:37:51] I couldn't really like have a the same sort of I could tell that there was like an imbalance between like the men and women in the church and I think that I was like that's that's not for me

[00:38:01] so I bucked to that and then I think about like my friends we all kind of had a similar vibe and I think you know secularism secularism is on the rise at the same time that extremism

[00:38:12] is on the rise so like you know it's kind of like a counteracting towards that and like I think we're placing that with like you know what can we like screw religion I still

[00:38:25] want to find community like I think about my friends post college and I don't know if this is the case for you but it's like making new friends after college when you're no longer in

[00:38:33] the place where you went to college is very scary and like it's really hard to do that like you know there's not a lot of outlets you can other than like a book club right you can

[00:38:42] just like go ahead and try and make friends and like people are trying to do that online like bumble bff is a thing like but like you were still it's still you still struggle to find community and

[00:38:52] there's like we're a that we live in and I think you know being like well you know let me try social psycho class like maybe I'll meet people that are cool like maybe and especially I think

[00:39:02] if you're like particularly like if you're trying to date too like that's an extra reason to like be social and be a part of these groups and find find some sense of belonging that's not

[00:39:13] like that doesn't portray itself as as rigid as religion yeah anything you want to add key um no I think I kind of agree with with that um I think that yeah it's definitely harder this time in age I think for some of us to find

[00:39:36] communities to really belong to I think we're a very like digitized generation and you know normally go out like as much uh like to you know bars or I mean we still do but I think

[00:39:53] it's just there's definitely a new generation where it's very easy to meet people like online things like that have that kind of connection but if you're not doing that then I feel like

[00:40:06] definitely start for connection I was just talking to a friend of mine who knows a friend that's also on bumblebee ff because they move somewhere that they don't have any friends uh and they move because

[00:40:17] of their partner's job um so it's just tough you know I think we're we're human you know we desire that that kind of belonging and I think it's something kind of primal you know like we want

[00:40:30] to be part of the pack we want to have protection and be safe and I think it's just a very basic human need um that you know gets fulfilled by maybe participating in those you know communities and

[00:40:43] you know feeling a sense of belonging there yeah definitely and we just have to kind of listen and watch because most of us go into those not realizing you know that there could be cultish kind of tendencies for the people or what people are saying to you

[00:41:05] and what's keeping you a member and involved um I think it's just a good wake-up call I think the book was very good at that anything else we need to cover my cultish friends because our

[00:41:25] family is a cult yeah the candy family was a cult oh no no I think we we talked about talked about anything that was on my night at least yeah things too all right ladies well thank you so

[00:41:42] much for joining your mom love you of course and thank you for joining us listeners talk to you soon bye thank you for listening today and we sure hope you enjoyed this episode if you did please leave a

[00:42:01] comment wherever you listen to your podcast tell a friend about us join our public facebook group girl take the lead or visit our website girl take the lead pod.com we also have a youtube channel

[00:42:15] where your subscription would be appreciated once you're on youtube search at girl take the lead and we're on youtube music where you can find a video of this episode here are three takeaways one language is likely to be the first thing we're willing to change about ourselves

[00:42:36] and the last thing to leave when being influenced by cultish organizations or personalities two not all cultish organizations are bad and it's good to evaluate them on a three level categorization Amanda Montel offers beginning with live your life moving to watch your back

[00:43:03] and finally get the f out three as we search for connections and belonging we need to be aware of the different characteristics of cultish behavior our next episode will kick off our month about topics having to do with

[00:43:25] self-care our first one will feature our guest Julie B. Julie is an entrepreneur with over 15 years of experience and the author of the book burned how business owners can overcome burnout and fuel success Julie shares her personal story about transforming burnout into a force of change

[00:43:52] she helps us see some of the warning signs we all might be experiencing no matter where we are in life that can lead us towards burning out please join us again and talk to you soon bye